All Blacks vs Wales
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
the cupboard is very bare at 12
I still reckon that a well coached Laumape could have been a bloody good 12 at Test level. Just never got his head right at that level I don't think.
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We need 10 running to hold defenders
A threat at 12 to hold defendersTo open space for our best attacking threat, our lightning quick 13.
But as stargazer said, without good ball 10, 12 and 13 are there to make tackles
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I would have said DMac to cover 15 from bench, but it is likely he will start for AB XV. More likely to be DH covering from bench.
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@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
Fair enough but he ticks all the boxes on paper and based on the limited amount we seen.
He can crash and bash, he can kick, he can offload and he can tackle. He will focus the mind of their ten and back row too as he isn't as easy to knock over as Havili.
RTS has no kicking game so the defence can just rush up if Mo'unga shovels it. Parsons alluded to this on this weeks Aotearoa Rugby pod.
Havili has had plenty of chances and while a great footballer, he is the George bridge of 12's. Lightweight, Vanilla, not super quick, not super strong.
We have seen ALB there before and backrow/centres combos were our weakest points in RWC 2019. The centres were insipid and the backrow was unbalanced. Whats the point in doing it again? ALB crabs sideways and throws basketball passes although he is a good defender. Jordie put his head down in Eden Park and pumped the legs. Got us going forward every time. It was refreshing and the contribution was arguably under appreciated.
Jordie offers us a point of difference and that's what we need to go far in the RWC.
Jordie at 12 and Will Jordan at 15 is the only way we win the RWC.
- SMITH
- BARRETT
- CLARKE
- JORDIE
- RIEKO (RELUCTANTLY)
- REECE
- JORDAN
Thats the best backline we can field based on the current crop.
Clarke and Jordie can cart it up off set piece. Jordan is the scalpel. Reece will rome and rove, get you the odd turnover, intercept or pick and go for cheap yardage.
Rieko to use his pace in defence and attack.
I like the idea of the Barrett brothers working in unison.
I don't fancy Mo'unga against the Irish, English, French or Boks. They just chew him up. Choke tackle city.
Those very teams did that to Beaudie this year. Richie played pretty good against the Boks when he started that second test. Played with a bit of depth and created space for his outsides. He was very poor last weekend.
Fair point.....Jordie to 10 it is !!!!!
Would love to see him start at 13 to get the full deck of 10-15
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Wales:
We found our starting 12 for the RWC. Its clear to see its Jordie.
It isn't clear to me. Let's see how he goes against teams other than the Oz Eden Park team.
Fair enough but he ticks all the boxes on paper and based on the limited amount we seen.
He can crash and bash, he can kick, he can offload and he can tackle. He will focus the mind of their ten and back row too as he isn't as easy to knock over as Havili.
RTS has no kicking game so the defence can just rush up if Mo'unga shovels it. Parsons alluded to this on this weeks Aotearoa Rugby pod.
Havili has had plenty of chances and while a great footballer, he is the George bridge of 12's. Lightweight, Vanilla, not super quick, not super strong.
We have seen ALB there before and backrow/centres combos were our weakest points in RWC 2019. The centres were insipid and the backrow was unbalanced. Whats the point in doing it again? ALB crabs sideways and throws basketball passes although he is a good defender. Jordie put his head down in Eden Park and pumped the legs. Got us going forward every time. It was refreshing and the contribution was arguably under appreciated.
Jordie offers us a point of difference and that's what we need to go far in the RWC.
Jordie at 12 and Will Jordan at 15 is the only way we win the RWC.
- SMITH
- BARRETT
- CLARKE
- JORDIE
- RIEKO (RELUCTANTLY)
- REECE
- JORDAN
Thats the best backline we can field based on the current crop.
Clarke and Jordie can cart it up off set piece. Jordan is the scalpel. Reece will rome and rove, get you the odd turnover, intercept or pick and go for cheap yardage.
Rieko to use his pace in defence and attack.
I like the idea of the Barrett brothers working in unison.
I don't fancy Mo'unga against the Irish, English, French or Boks. They just chew him up. Choke tackle city.
Those very teams did that to Beaudie this year. Richie played pretty good against the Boks when he started that second test. Played with a bit of depth and created space for his outsides. He was very poor last weekend.
Fair point.....Jordie to 10 it is !!!!!
Would love to see him start at 13 to get the full deck of 10-15
He needs to play no.8 so we can have a tall player there finally.
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@No-Quarter I’ve been a big fan of Beaudie at fullback because on the counter and broken play he is still a very dangerous proposition with space. I’d say the only reservation they would have about a permanent shift whilst Jordie is available to play fullback is Beaudies kicking. It’s still a pretty important tool needed and Jordie’s big boot has gotten us out of a few tough spots and I’m not sure anyone else has that in the squad.
And not that Beaudie is bad at this, but under the high ball Jordie’s ability to not only getting high, but jumping early to take it - he is pretty damn good at this and one of the better players I’ve seen.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter I’ve been a big fan of Beaudie at fullback because on the counter and broken play he is still a very dangerous proposition with space. I’d say the only reservation they would have about a permanent shift whilst Jordie is available to play fullback is Beaudies kicking. It’s still a pretty important tool needed and Jordie’s big boot has gotten us out of a few tough spots and I’m not sure anyone else has that in the squad.
And not that Beaudie is bad at this, but under the high ball and not only getting high, but jumping early to take it - Jordie is pretty damn good and one of the better players I’ve seen at it.
As a few of us have said recently it's all about the relative drop off at 15 (JB to BB) vs 12 (JB to DV/RTS)
I'd def go with AS & RM, JB and RI midfield, CC and SR wings, with BB at 15.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter I’ve been a big fan of Beaudie at fullback because on the counter and broken play he is still a very dangerous proposition with space. I’d say the only reservation they would have about a permanent shift whilst Jordie is available to play fullback is Beaudies kicking. It’s still a pretty important tool needed and Jordie’s big boot has gotten us out of a few tough spots and I’m not sure anyone else has that in the squad.
And not that Beaudie is bad at this, but under the high ball Jordie’s ability to not only getting high, but jumping early to take it - he is pretty damn good at this and one of the better players I’ve seen.
I mean, it's as easy as getting Havili back to 15 innit?
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@voodoo I’d go with RM, LF, DH, BE, SR…
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Let's start with the right forwards in the right jerseys. If the pack performs well, it will make a hell of a difference to how the backline goes. Against Japan, the pack didn't go well, so it's not suprising that the backs struggled, too. Add to that a stupid game plan with too much kicking combined with a malfunctioning defence, plus too many rookies, and you have a recipe for a poor performance.
While I agree that Jordie should get another shot in the 12 jersey, I also think he's a better fullback than BB. With Jordan not in the squad, I can see merit in starting Jordie at fullback, with BB on the bench.
But as I said, get the forward combination, especially the backrow, right first.
While I am never as quick to excuse the guys on the field as you
I pretty much agree with everything here
JB at 12 needs a full tour now to show it's for real. But his problem is, who plays 15? And thrn the question is, is the drop to the 2nd best 12 or 15 the biggest?
I also really hate a bench player's introduction resulting in more than 1 change
The drop to 2nd best 12 is undoubtedly bigger. We have Beauden and Jordan (longer term) at 15, the cupboard is very bare at 12, hence us trying to shoehorn Havili there. I'm also more excited by Beauden and Jordan at the back as that gives us extra attacking ability, E.G. scoring tries out of absolutely fucking nothing which can turn the course of a test, which we may need when our forwards are getting smacked around.
Hammer. Nail. Head
Ben Smith, Dagg, McKenzie , Cullen, Muliaina used to get us out of serious holes by running the ball back , finding a gap , and next thing you know you are 20 meters from their try line and they are scrambling . You get cheap offside penalties and are in great scoring positions. Jordie is too conservative a 15, but exactly what we need at 12.
Foster picks his fullback as a kick fielder as opposed to an attacking weapon. We need to be bold.
Look at Will Jordan’s highlight reel for the Allblacks . Think of the try he scored against Ireland running 80 meters around sexton on the angle. The chip and chases against wales, the USA, the swerve against OZ gathering Beaudys chip.
Now imagine letting this boy have time and space and the whole field to choose from if we play him at FB.
He is another point of difference and we are not using him to his full potential.
Having him in the wing being bundled into touch is a waste of time.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Wales:
Not a big fan of Reece. Shame that Jordan isn't available
Reece is a better winger than Jordan, offers a lot more physicality which Jordan lacks.
5kg heavier, much stronger & dominant tackler, with a ridiculous work-rate off the ball.
Jordan is a fullback and isn't nearly as effective on the wing.
Bollocks from start to finish.
Jordan is close on 100kgs and Sevu is around 90kgs. Seriously, you only have to look at them to see that Jordan is much bigger.
A prime example of how believing bogus internet weights will lead to totally fucked-up analysis!!!!!!
and tries! Over the same number of games (21), Jordan has
{nearly all on the wing, may have spent a little time at FB?} 21 tries
Will Jordan
WILL JORDAN was one of the most talked about players in 2020, with his natural flair and x-factor a key feature in the championship-winning Crusaders backline.
{virtually all on wing, may have covered for 12?} 14 tries
Sevu Reece
A STANDOUT ON the wing for the Crusaders this year, Sevu Reece was a rugby and track and field schoolboy star in his Fiji homeland. He moved to New Zealand in 2014 to finish his schooling at Hamilton Boys’ High School and went onto play club rugby for the local Melville club.
By my reckoning Jordan is 50% more effective at scoring points (Jordan scores a try a game, Reece scores 2 tries per 3 games). -
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@voodoo I’d go with RM, LF, DH, BE, SR…
Well they had both DH and SR on TV in an interview after training so you are probably at least 40% right
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The omens are not good.
England referee Wayne Barnes will mark his 100th Test at Cardiff on Sunday (NZT) by starting the game with the whistle used in the famous 1905 Test between Wales and the All Blacks.
Wales won 3-0, but the game has forever been remembered for the non-awarding of a try to All Blacks centre Bob Deans who maintained, until his premature death in 1908 from complications after an appendix operation, that he had scored a fair try. -
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Wales:
The omens are not good.
England referee Wayne Barnes will mark his 100th Test at Cardiff on Sunday (NZT) by starting the game with the whistle used in the famous 1905 Test between Wales and the All Blacks.
Wales won 3-0, but the game has forever been remembered for the non-awarding of a try to All Blacks centre Bob Deans who maintained, until his premature death in 1908 from complications after an appendix operation, that he had scored a fair try.Barnes, Cardiff, Deans.....what could go wrong?
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@No-Quarter I’ve been a big fan of Beaudie at fullback because on the counter and broken play he is still a very dangerous proposition with space. I’d say the only reservation they would have about a permanent shift whilst Jordie is available to play fullback is Beaudies kicking. It’s still a pretty important tool needed and Jordie’s big boot has gotten us out of a few tough spots and I’m not sure anyone else has that in the squad.
And not that Beaudie is bad at this, but under the high ball Jordie’s ability to not only getting high, but jumping early to take it - he is pretty damn good at this and one of the better players I’ve seen.
Yeah - and it's noticeable that Jordie takes a pretty high proportion of defensive high balls - especially in traffic. When you've got attacking players waving their arms into the contest his size and timing are pretty handy.
The other thing that would need significant adjustment is the defensive system where the wings are pushing in and often leaving the outside player for Jordie to come across and smash - which he's also very good and safe at. He is a great big bastard who hits hard and Beaudy isn't.
Beaudy has more speed and a better counter-attacker in most situations.
If we could clone Jordie, I'd be pretty happy to have him at 2nd five and fullback - but, we can't and in my mind fullback is a more influential position. I'm hesitant to shift him at this late stage.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
If we could clone Jordie, I'd be pretty happy to have him at 2nd five and fullback - but, we can't and in my mind fullback is a more influential position. I'm hesitant to shift him at this late stage.
Can't really argue but it is amazing we have so many part-time fbs and not a great second one!
Perofeta BB Reece(!) Havili Jordan...
Maybe Zarn Sullivan is worth a look? -
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wales:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wales:
If we could clone Jordie, I'd be pretty happy to have him at 2nd five and fullback - but, we can't and in my mind fullback is a more influential position. I'm hesitant to shift him at this late stage.
Can't really argue but it is amazing we have so many part-time fbs and not a great second one!
Perofeta BB Reece(!) Havili Jordan...
Maybe Zarn Sullivan is worth a look?I wish.
Personally I'd like to see him end up at 10 but I can't see it happening
