All Blacks v Argentina II
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
OK, next day match report from the stadium.
HTown was great fun. What an awesome day out - in the sun, charcoal lamb rotisserie at a mates, helped smash a keg of beer, and then down to the ground. FMG is one of the good rugby watching grounds in the country (proper rectangle; NH and Dunedin are in the mix), but fark me the crowd was all over the place. Peopel are just up and down all the time, don't care what's happening on the field, and hte low angles mean it's really easy to have the view blocked. On the other hand, vocal, and 7 pitch invaders (!) so ya get that. @NTA no issues yelling at the kicker, Ireland can do the quiet, people can do whatever they hell they want at the ground... it's more our mindset than rule following.
That said, we were about 2 rows away from being in teh rain, so happy times
First time in teh stand, normally we like to stand in the green zone, but got lucky getting seats with the weather.So, ABs were very clinical, very accurate, and low error rate. The chip is a legit tactic to find space against the rush; you could see why it was being done. Sometimes worked, sometimes didn't - but the threat of the little dink puts people in two minds, and that slows down a defensive line.
Forward pack were sensational. Really committed and dominant. ST a monster, rest of the tigh went well. Set piece was strong. Loosies good, and particularly Sam Cane who monstered people all night, and actually linked and got aroudn the paddock well. Good work. Ardie played the Savea position again, and Fritzel got into plenty of work in the dark spaces. Cane was amazing I thought, particularly with the weight he has carried
Aaron was good, but got run over 2-3 times in defence. Noticeable that his box kick was going for length from the 22 - and it generally worked to exit us to about the 40. His pass was sweet. RM was a mix ... some really good stuff, but also some brave Test match decisions. Still small... which goes to the downside of Havili - his size. He's not a bail out option, and with Smith and Mounga that's quite undersized inside backs. Played well, some smart decisions, but at risk of getting ragdolled on both sides of the ball. That said, (like at 6), picking someone and sticking with them is better than chopping and changing ... that led to 2019 and no idea about our midfield or 6.
Rieko was sensational. Pace, skill and positioning. His defensive work is very strong and folk often don't see it. His pace is sublime, and turning that argie inside out for his try was magnficent.
Will Jordan seems very off, and has a hgih error rate. Would see Reece there instead. Clarke was solid on kickoffs (most went to him), did his best to hurt people when running, but otherwise didnt' see a lot of ball. Jordie isn't what he was, but seems more likely to bring his A game. We were talking about it - I'd take Jordie over Jordan because of teh defence, the punt and the aerial skills. Jordan with ball in hand at lower levels is sensational ... but struggles to put that out there in tests against good opposition, particularly this year.
Ref was fine.
Honestly, the abiding memory was the backs actually doing something - and the accuracy rate through the roof. The last try was sweet; we'd run the Jordie play onto the ball earlier, so ran the same play with a different option. Was bloody good to watch. So fair play Foster, I thought you should have gone a long time ago, but string some of these performances together and I'll have to eat humble pie.
Good fun, lovely day out, the newish expressway makes getting to HTown so smooth.
This woulda got a upvote for the food alone…….Great ferning !
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Thought his passing was quicker than smith tbh.
He's also a vastly different player than Smith. He speeds up the short game hugely when he comes on, but it's noticeable when he has to get that wide pass, it's a bit more loopy/laboured - however with the work he does in close it doesn't matter as much as there's more space wider by that stage anyway.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Recall @Gibbt describing Tomas Lavanini rocking up to the Judiciary like Norm rocking into Cheers.
Cheers?
Cheers.
@Mackerzzzz I seem to recall you may a young pup.
Cheers was a TV sitcom about a bunch of peeps hanging about a bar in Boston.
Google it.
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Recall @Gibbt describing Tomas Lavanini rocking up to the Judiciary like Norm rocking into Cheers.
Cheers?
Where everybody knows your name
What he said.
Norm was a frequent client.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Recall @Gibbt describing Tomas Lavanini rocking up to the Judiciary like Norm rocking into Cheers.
Cheers?
Cheers.
@Mackerzzzz I seem to recall you may a young pup.
Cheers was a TV sitcom about a bunch of peeps hanging about a bar in Boston.
Google it.
@canefan said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Recall @Gibbt describing Tomas Lavanini rocking up to the Judiciary like Norm rocking into Cheers.
Cheers?
Where everybody knows your name
What he said.
Norm was a frequent client.
Good show,and enjoyed having a beer at cheers bar in Boston, while wife was running Boston Marathon in 96. I can see the judiciary all just saying "Thomas", as he heads for his usual cheer!
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Those teal tracksuits are a fucking disgrace
The Argie ones? Look like prison garb.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Those teal tracksuits are a fucking disgrace
The Argie ones? Look like prison garb.
farking smurfs from where we were sitting
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@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@MajorRage said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Think tonight I see @MiketheSnow view point on Richie M.
Still better than BB for me but he had a poor decison making test.
RM thinks he’s Michael Jordan
The sooner he realises he’s Scottie Pippen the quicker NZ regain their Best in the World mantle
Who the f is that
Dude, I'll accept you're young but surely you've watched The Last Dance? I mean COVID lockdowns plus Netflix ...
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It is refreshing to have Christie coming off of the pine instead of Perenara of past seasons.
We seem in a way better place at 9 than we were last year. There's a gap between Smith and the rest, but the rest are at least capable of closing out a game and not doing anything stupid.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
LOL at Coles; "de vuelta en tu caja"
Help with the context. I get the translation. Did he actually say it? What time? Was that what led to the shove at handshakes?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
It is refreshing to have Christie coming off of the pine instead of Perenara of past seasons.
We seem in a way better place at 9 than we were last year. There's a gap between Smith and the rest, but the rest are at least capable of closing out a game and not doing anything stupid.
I am still cross with TJP for flapping around in Lions 3 with the scrum awarded from the infamous 'we ave a deal'. Let the Lions halfback kick the ball out and take off- good play there and we are in with another penalty or try.
Arrrrr still annoying.
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For the people saying Jordan was good on the kick chase - what are you seeing? Was it a specific chase or two?
I thought our kick chase was poor, apart from Ardie (who blitzed past a once again half pace Jordan).
There were a couple of grubbers I roughly recall he got close to, but he could have actually done a lot better if he committed and ran full pace.
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@Bones I agree, and Ardie blitzing him on that kick chase was pretty concerning, he should have been leading the charge with Ardie coming in for the turnover. He just doesn't seem as energetic since he was out with Covid - maybe still has some symptoms? Reece is definitely worth a go on the right wing.
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@No-Quarter yeah he looks lost at times. Definitely appears to be in a deep funk, but the way he's coasting about, it really does look like what someone mentioned a few tests ago - a petulant child. It's most likely not, but he really appears to not be trying. Not something you could accuse Reece of.
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@Bones although he does seem to have that effortless look about him. Like when he puts the hammer down he motors but doesn't look like he's trying. I was worried about Ardie beating him to make that tackle, but wondered if Jordan evened up in case Ardie missed or to receive a snaffle ball.
I prefer jordie at the moment for sure. But how good that we can say 2/3 of our back trio are out of sorts and we still hammer the pumas!
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@Paekakboyz said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
he does seem to have that effortless look about him
Granted, but it's pretty easy to see he's not going all in, purely from the slow pace.
I recall Ardie went past him too, or have I got that wrong? If I'm right, I really can't forgive him for easing up on the chase to allow for someone behind him to maybe miss 😬
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Those teal tracksuits are a fucking disgrace
They look like the trouser suits the Air New Zealand air hostesses used to wear in the 70s. Trendy.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I recall Ardie went past him too, or have I got that wrong?
I was amazed at how fast Ardie is at full pace (as opposed to acceleration)
Jordan has that ability to go from trotting to Warp factor 9 in about 4 paces but is his top speed more than Ardie's?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
I recall Ardie went past him too, or have I got that wrong?
I was amazed at how fast Ardie is at full pace (as opposed to acceleration)
Jordan has that ability to go from trotting to Warp factor 9 in about 4 paces but is his top speed more than Ardie's?
Come on man! Ardie is pretty quick for a forward, yeah. But he's nothing compared to your typical outside back, especially one known for his searing pace.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
@Stargazer you realise my response was to him being referred to as a player who was 'being forgotten' by another poster. I don't think he's forgotten, but offered some perspective as to why. I think he's a talent, and I hope he succeeds ... but there's more rose tinted provincial glasses being worn on here recently than I've seen for ages. Probably a product of poor coaching, poor selection and AB losses.
Bounce it back to you - do you think he's forgotten? And do you think he's played well for teh ABs?
Side note: how do you find out how many minutes Christie has played -- is it easy to find anywhere?
Okay, you want to know how many minutes Christie has played in black?Christie's first tests were against easy beats: 27 minutes against Tonga and 12 minutes against Fiji, last year.
Also last year, he got 32 minutes against Argentina (2nd test).
During the EOYT, he got his only start (54 minutes) against the USA, and then 71 minutes off the bench against Italy (replacing Weber who got injured). He was named on the bench against Ireland, but never came on the field (no need to guess why).
This year, he played 21 minutes against Ireland in the first test (coming on when the ABs were already leading 35 to 12); then 12 and 11 minutes against South Africa, and 17 and 27 minutes against Argentina.
So basically, he's had been eased into test rugby via easy games and was in the squad for much longer before he got to play against a strong opponent. He wasn't thrown into the deep like Fakatava.
Fakatava came on in the second test when the ABs were trailing 7 - 20 and in the third test when the score was 22 - 25 and at a time that 4 players were substituted on more or less at the same time. Yes, his decision making was off a few times, but you'd think it's not so strange for a 22-year-old - who hadn't played for 5 weeks - to make a few mistakes after being thrown into a pressure cooker in his test debut.
I don't think Fakatava, or Perofeta, RTS, Fainga'anuku and Ross for that matter, are forgotten men either, but I also don't think they didn't get game time because they're not deemed good enough or failed in their first minutes of test rugby (Perofeta didn't even get enough time to make a mistake). I think they are being given time to learn in the ABs environment. So they're different from players like Sotutu and Papali'i (and Tuipulotu), who are not new to test rugby and have had little or no minutes for whatever reason.
But if the rookies are not being given sufficient game time in the upcoming tests, a) it will be difficult to know whether they're good enough for the RWC squad when selection time comes and/or b) we risk having players in the RWC squad next year that haven't had enough test rugby under their belt and are basically STILL rookies.
By the way, I have seen enough of Christie and Fakatava over the last few years to see that Fakatava has a far higher ceiling than Christie. Christie has been okay in black until now, but hasn't shown anything extraordinary, while he's had a pretty easy ride in most of his games.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks v Argentina II:
Christie's first tests were against easy beats: 27 minutes against Tonga and 12 minutes against Fiji, last year.
I don't recall Fiji esp in the forwards being easy beats?
https://www.allblacks.com/news/fiji-test-the-all-blacks-in-dunedin/Smith on Christie:
https://www.allblacks.com/news/aaron-smith-impressed-by-debutant-christie/"I wouldn't say he's fiery. He's very calm. He's just not scared of the moment to be physical. He's very calm on the ball, he's got a good process going into pass. If anything, he's a calm, fast, hardworking halfback."
