All Black pack

taniwharugby

@MiketheSnow there's that side too!

Guess the upside is, Fozzie reckons they are close, so a new coach might be the new voice that gets them there....

Chris

@Chris said in All Black pack:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Black pack:

@Chris said in All Black pack:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Black pack:

@Chris said in All Black pack:

@nzzp said in All Black pack:

@Chris said in All Black pack:

@nzzp said in All Black pack:

The crappy game plan and selections are on him,

This is Foster right through from his Chiefs days.
And he is coaching and selecting the AB's ,seems to me not the right choice and nothing will change while he is there.

I agree.

But - the problems go deeper than just Foster. As @Victor-Meldrew keeps pointing out, new coaches will still have to deal with the cattle.

This would should have been cauterised after Irealnd 3,a nd everyone would be moving forward. Someone used the word 'dithering' in another thread - sums up NZR beautifully.

I agree there is more than Foster as the problem, but for me its a great place to start.
We have to change the fixable now and that is Foster gone then sort the rest as we can.

OK, so let's move this on a bit.

How long to you give the new bloke to show real improvements? As measures are important, how many Tests?

What do you do if/when the new bloke doesn't improve things (apart from the initial improvement any new change in management brings)?

Do you give a new Bloke as long as Foster has had 3 years.
That seems fair If Foster has had 3 years to stuff it up.

How can you judge a new bloke on a shorter time span,if it has taken 3 years to decide Foster is not up to it.

Well, as this isn't the Foster thread, I was referring to improvements in the forwards more than anything else, the metrics around that improvement and what could be done to meet them.

But I don't think another three years of sub-par performances with no corrective plans in place - just as long as it isn't Foster in charge - is a valid option.

I think the problem you will find no decent coach is going to take on the AB coaching job on a limited leash.

England, among others will be looking for new coaches after the WC.

A highly paid longer term gig looks looks a lot better than a short time job to fix up a hell of a mess not of the new coaches making.

The mess the AB's are in it is not the primo job everyone thinks it is .
In fact it looking ,more like the worst coaching job in Rugby every loss under Foster.

If you know people with in the NZ rugby scene they will tell you its a job not many want now.

Fuck I’d be champing

Nothing to lose. Nothing.

You fail, it’s a systemic problem not of your making.

You succeed, then it’s legendary hero status for life.

Any coach not wanting this opportunity now is not the coach you want anyway.

This is Hollywood ‘Rocky’ time

Put you name forward you might be the only one .

Bovidae

@KiwiMurph said in All Black pack:

Meanwhile in attack there was numerous occasions where the ABs couldn't clean the Argies out (or Havili for sealing after Caleb's kickoff reception etc).

Another example was Clarke stuffing up for the Mo'unga turnover by slipping over FFS.

KiwiMurph

@Bovidae said in All Black pack:

@KiwiMurph said in All Black pack:

Meanwhile in attack there was numerous occasions where the ABs couldn't clean the Argies out (or Havili for sealing after Caleb's kickoff reception etc).

Another example was Clarke stuffing up for the Mo'unga turnover by slipping over FFS.

Clarke then slipped over chasing back when the grubber was put in

nostrildamus

@KiwiMurph said in All Black pack:

@Bovidae said in All Black pack:

@KiwiMurph said in All Black pack:

Meanwhile in attack there was numerous occasions where the ABs couldn't clean the Argies out (or Havili for sealing after Caleb's kickoff reception etc).

Another example was Clarke stuffing up for the Mo'unga turnover by slipping over FFS.

Clarke then slipped over chasing back when the grubber was put in

Did he slip over against S Africa as well or did I imagine that?

broughie

@MiketheSnow Agree. Our only expectation is anything better than what foster has presided over.

Victor Meldrew

@Chris said in All Black pack:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Black pack:

@Chris said in All Black pack:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Black pack:

@Chris said in All Black pack:

@nzzp said in All Black pack:

@Chris said in All Black pack:

@nzzp said in All Black pack:

The crappy game plan and selections are on him,

This is Foster right through from his Chiefs days.
And he is coaching and selecting the AB's ,seems to me not the right choice and nothing will change while he is there.

I agree.

But - the problems go deeper than just Foster. As @Victor-Meldrew keeps pointing out, new coaches will still have to deal with the cattle.

This would should have been cauterised after Irealnd 3,a nd everyone would be moving forward. Someone used the word 'dithering' in another thread - sums up NZR beautifully.

I agree there is more than Foster as the problem, but for me its a great place to start.
We have to change the fixable now and that is Foster gone then sort the rest as we can.

OK, so let's move this on a bit.

How long to you give the new bloke to show real improvements? As measures are important, how many Tests?

What do you do if/when the new bloke doesn't improve things (apart from the initial improvement any new change in management brings)?

Do you give a new Bloke as long as Foster has had 3 years.
That seems fair If Foster has had 3 years to stuff it up.

How can you judge a new bloke on a shorter time span,if it has taken 3 years to decide Foster is not up to it.

Well, as this isn't the Foster thread, I was referring to improvements in the forwards more than anything else, the metrics around that improvement and what could be done to meet them.

But I don't think another three years of sub-par performances with no corrective plans in place - just as long as it isn't Foster in charge - is a valid option.

I think the problem you will find no decent coach is going to take on the AB coaching job on a limited leash.

England, among others will be looking for new coaches after the WC.

A highly paid longer term gig looks looks a lot better than a short time job to fix up a hell of a mess not of the new coaches making.

The mess the AB's are in it is not the primo job everyone thinks it is .
In fact it is looking more like the worst coaching job in Rugby every loss under Foster.

If you know people with in the NZ rugby scene they will tell you its a job not many want now.

Nice attempt at diversion....

Canes4life

@Tim said in All Black pack:

Oh hey, the best player in the country (Papalii) can't be played because the coach loves the worst.

Dalton better than Ardie? I don’t think so.

Duluth

Can we keep this thread about the AB pack please?

There is a thread to discuss Foster:
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/5434/foster/3185

cgrant

My power rankings :

LHP : De Groot - Bower - Ross - Hodgman - Williams/Norris/Brewis
Hooker : ST - Aumua - Coles - Eklund - Bell/McAllister/Thompson
THP : Lomax - Newell - Ta'avao - Ofa T - Jager/Williams/Franks
4 : Whitelock - Vaai'i - Walker-Leawere - Selby-Rickitt - Sangster
5 : S. Barrett - Retallick - Lord (if fit) - Dickson - PPP (if fit)
6 : Ioane - Blackadder (if fit) - Frizell - S. Barrett - Robinson/Jacobson/Ah Kuoi/Suafoa/MMT
7 : Savea - Papali'i - Blackadder (if fit) - Cane - Harmon
8 : Sotutu - Savea - Grace (if fit) - Sowakula - Jacobson/MMT

Worth a watch for the future : Vikena, Ma'u, Tosi, Holland, Haig, Finau, Iose, Lakai.

Yeahtheboys

@Chris-B

Your wish is my command.

De Groot / Moody / Ross / Norris / Lienert-Brown
Taukeiaho / Daylight / Taylor / Coles / Eklund
Lomax / Taavao / Newell / Tuungafasi / Laulala / Ainsley?
S. Barrett / Vaai / Brodie / Selby-Rickett / Lord
Whitelock / Vaai / Selby-Rickett / Goodhue / Lord
Ardie / Frizell / Papalii / Grace / Sowakula / Jacobson / Akira
Ardie / Papalii / Cane / Christie / Kirifi
Ardie / Sotutu / Grace / Jacobson / Sowakula / Akira

Currently

De Groot
Taukeiaho
Lomax
S. Barrett
Whitelock
Frizell
Papalii
Ardie

Bench

Taylor
Ross
Taavao
Vaai
Cane

Future

Norris
Taukeiaho
Newell
Lord
Vaai
Ardie
Papalii
Sotutu

Bench

Aumua
De Groot
Lomax
Selby-Rickett?
Grace

Tuinukuafe / Tuungafasi / Laulala are outdated imo, need more work out of them

Taukeiaho is the best hooker in the world right now? Malcolm Marx?
Seriously under appreciated and under hyped

Lock we're stacked with decent players but not real standouts. Brodie regressed, Whitelock does his thing, S. Barrett is the standout atm.

Ardie is just the best loose forward in all 3 positions by some distance. Just need to find the best 2 loose forwards to complement them.

Akira does fuck all when we need him, workrate still shit, cashes in against weak opponents with the "experts" mentioning how good his workrate is

IF Akira starts putting in effort and standing up as the alpha in the pack like we need him to, I have no doubt he is one of the first on the team sheet every week. Until then, I want nothing to do with him in black

antipodean

@Yeahtheboys said in All Black backline:

Akira does fuck all when we need him, workrate still shit, cashes in against weak opponents with the "experts" mentioning how good his workrate is

LOL WTF

Have a read: https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/post/763066

Chris B.

@Yeahtheboys That's timely - I've just logged on!

No Bower or Hodgman among the looseheads? I've got Bower in my top three and both well ahead of DLB.

Hooker - not bad - though I like the look of McAlister and Tyrone Thompson and I think Eklund is too small for Test rugby.

Tighthead - agree with your top 5 though I'm not sure what order and can't comment on Ainsley.

I don't think Vaai is better than BBR yet.

Loosies - you must have forgotten Blackadder, somewhere!

Not convinced about Ardie at 6 and I have Akira quite a bit higher than you.

I think you're probably right about Ardie at 7 and 8 as an individual - but, at 8 he affects the balance too much.

I pretty much agree with your top 3 - with Blackadder somewhere in the mix of the top 4.

For me is Frizell and Akira battling it out, with Blackadder providing a workrate option - though, actually, I see him as a sort of Chris Masoe option who can cover all three off the bench.

nostrildamus

if they're not going to play Sotutu could we please see MMT next year at 8?

Bones

@nzzp said in All Black pack:

I have another read on this, which is that Super is no longer preparing people for Test rugby.

Sorry if already covered but...Yeah I just can't buy into this that much, when we see games like Bokke 2, or the MAB beating Ireland A (and then losing game 2, sure, but severely hamstrung by their own selection policy).

The players have it in them and we see it when they get given clear methods and plans to work with. But something is completely fucking with their headspace around being able to carry out the given instructions.

It will be really interesting to see how the junior ABs go.

ACT Crusader

@voodoo said in All Black pack:

@broughie said in All Black pack:

@voodoo other than being excellent in line outs he has not been an effective ball runner for ages. So I would not have expected much from him.

Yeah, but...did he do 1 x 1m run then 6 for zero??? Or 5 x 10cm then 2 x 25cm?

I need to rewatch...

Loving your work bro. Impressed with the maths.

voodoo

@ACT-Crusader said in All Black pack:

@voodoo said in All Black pack:

@broughie said in All Black pack:

@voodoo other than being excellent in line outs he has not been an effective ball runner for ages. So I would not have expected much from him.

Yeah, but...did he do 1 x 1m run then 6 for zero??? Or 5 x 10cm then 2 x 25cm?

I need to rewatch...

Loving your work bro. Impressed with the maths.

Aw, thanks man, means a lot.

I can do more combos on request?

ACT Crusader

@voodoo “Rugby, it’s a game of centimetres, literally for AB ball carriers”

The Silver Fern

All Black pack