All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship
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@mariner4life Just usual provincial bias that clouds people's judgements on here even if they swear they don't do it.
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@FakatavaAllBlack said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@ACT-Crusader all I know for sure is Sky should bring back Deaker on sport for 1 night only! Murray will ask the tough questions🙂
Depends, was he mates with Fozzie and then felt rejected by him at a later date? If so then he'll go hard.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.
I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.
That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.
Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.
That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.
Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.
To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decisions he'll be best in the world IMO.
Interesting description.
But yeah, a much better player than the sum of his parts if that makes sense.
Added to that he managed to convince the world he was small when he wasn't that small, based on his first year a basically a club player in the pro ranks.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@MN5 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.
I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.
That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.
Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.
That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.
Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.
To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decisions he'll be best in the world IMO.
Interesting description.
But yeah, a much better player than the sum of his parts if that makes sense.
Added to that he managed to convince the world he was small when he wasn't that small, based on his first year a basically a club player in the pro ranks.
It’s common knowledge that all white backs are small, smart and above all extremely safe.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Old-Samurai-Jack Its funny that Tuipulotu gets singled out and yes, I agree that he should be put out to pasture, but there are a lot of other guys that should be joining him too that don't cop anywhere near the same criticism.
How some people keep justifying Codie Taylor being there is beyond me. He's been terrible at the big boys level for over 2 years now and people still find an excuse to pick him. He shouldn't even be jn the squad (along with Tuipulotu and others).
Tuipulotu is a disappointing one. He’s a gigantic human being up close and looks the perfect guy to take on those Bok, French and English packs……( he takes up loads of room when walking down a plane aisle ) but he just hasn’t kicked on ( but other lesser performers get picked like you mention )
I find Pat T frustrating. He has the size and skills, is a very good leader for the Blues, seems to value the jersey and has had a few periods of really high quality in Black, but always seems to disappoint at Test level overall.
I like the bloke but he's had plenty of opportunities and just doesn't come across as being even a solid 5 or 6th choice lock.
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@Victor-Meldrew earlier on in his career, he had a knack for coming on and stealing line outs. Which points to him not being a dud at lineout time.
It's been a while since he showed it though.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.
I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.
That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.
Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.
That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.
Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.
To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decisions he'll be best in the world IMO.
Yes Conrad ran weird but he actually wasn't that slow. I mean not ioane fast but still quick. Never watched Stanley tho, so can't comment on him
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I think some people are a bit too keen to get rid of players in the squad.
A lot of the current problems may be "between the players' ears" and I'd like to see first whether a new coach can solve that by improving the culture, communication and game plan.
A awful lot of that has to be driven and led by the players. Perhaps there's too many nice guys and not enough rocket-up-your-arse types in the leadership group. May need some mongrel off the field as well as on.
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@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Yes Conrad ran weird but he actually wasn't that slow
Watch a few videos and you can see he was bloody quick - especially over the first 10-15m.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Yes Conrad ran weird but he actually wasn't that slow
Watch a few videos and you can see he was bloody quick - especially over the first 10-15m.
and i think thats the real key, quick over those 10-15 to make the break and then finishers either side, i think Ben smith was similar, he either used that 10-20m of speed to finish...or to break the line on counter and feed someone
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@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.
I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.
That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.
Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.
That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.
Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.
To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decisions he'll be best in the world IMO.
Yes Conrad ran weird but he actually wasn't that slow. I mean not ioane fast but still quick. Never watched Stanley tho, so can't comment on him
When Rigor ( New Zealand cricket opener Mark Richardson to any non cricket fans on here ) had those self indulgent races in jump suits I’m fairly sure Ma’a and Conrad were about the same speed over whatever distance they ran ?
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@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@kev said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph I reckon we might see Jack Goodhue in the midfield - and perhaps Rieko back to the wing.
I like the idea of Goodhue and Rieko together, even though I haven't rated Goodhue at 12 in the past. Just think they might compliment each other well, Goodhue very organised on defense and good at putting his outsides away, while Rieko is always a massive threat with ball in hand and is a very good tackler.
That's a great and established combination... with Jack at 13 where he plays well and Rieko at 11 where he plays well.
Therein lies the problem, chop and change. If Rieko is the long-term 13 then play him there and select around him. Otherwise you get to the RWC and we still don’t know who our best centre pairing are.
That's always gone well. For those barracking Goodhue, remember for all his benefits he's about as fast as a one legged prop.
Conrad Smith / Joe Stanley? It’s all about balance. Midfield is much more about option taking and defence than top pace. If you have the right wings and fullback you don’t need your centre to be be the line breaker. With BB, Havili and Reiko we have the wrong mix. Backline defence and option taking was poor. As much as Reiko’s pace is great he always looks to run before passing.
To be fair, Joe played in a very different era - there was plenty of space on the field. Conrad ran like a bundle of brooms, but I suspect was quicker than Josh. Rieko's pace in that channel with the slightest bit of room is a real point of difference on attack (see his try against France for example). And on defence he covers ground very quickly. Once he gets better at making defensive decisions he'll be best in the world IMO.
Yes Conrad ran weird but he actually wasn't that slow. I mean not ioane fast but still quick. Never watched Stanley tho, so can't comment on him
Conrad was a great player - really fit, smart, played 80 minutes to a high level. Jack has similar qualities - Robinson uses him in the Crusaders in that role. But Reiko has got that great explosive speed. Just about picking a team and tactics that work.
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Well this is weird. Conrad's pace was far more Goodhue than Ioane. Very fit, but not fast, and definitely not fast off the mark. Nor was Stanley fast. Nor was Bunce.
I tell you what all of them could do though, is make space for outsides and deliver the pass and make good decisions.
Every time Ioane makes a break it's 50/50 whether it breaks down with/because of him. High ceiling absolutely, but as of now he can't do the core job on defence or attack as well as Goodhue can, and he will make more errors, and he's a really bloody good winger.
If we stick to our nothing game plan and rely on individual breaks then sure. But surely we kinda know that doesn't work now? -
Let's all just agree that changing who plays at centre still won't give us front foot ball.
It's the ability of our forwards to secure, retain possession and provide quick ball over the advantage line that will provide space. They also need to not act like revolving doors in defence, or give away penalties if they do inadvertently tackle someone.
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I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
Also RTS may be the future but based on super rugby he did not stand out. Give him a year of provincial rugby and come back to it and see how he looks. If he doesn't dominate there we have our answer.
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mariner4life Just usual provincial bias that clouds people's judgements on here even if they swear they don't do it.
Bit harsh on the Auckland and Blues supporters there…
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@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
It doesn’t feel like Cane won any turnovers in the last test. I like his physical presence at collision, but elsewhere his ball skills let him down. Ardie tends to ride tackles down than win collisions but is good as the 2nd man in. But I know what you mean about having a 7 that wins more on the ground. Nowadays they have to built like a brick shithouse to take the knocks.
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@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
What about this:
Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, N Laulala, T Lomax, G Bower, E De Groot, A Ross
Hooker: S Taukei'aho, C Taylor, A Aumua
Locks: S Whitelock, S Barrett, T Vaii, J Goodhue*
Flanker/No8s: A Savea, S Cane, D Papalii, C Grace, L Jacobson, H Sotutu
Scrunhalfs: A Smith, F Christie, F Fakatava
First fives: B Barrett, R Mo'unga, (Either DMac or Perofeta depending on eligibility)
Centres: R Ioane, J Goodhue, RTS, Q Tupaea, D Havili
Wingers: C Clarke, S Reece, L Fainga'anuku, M Telea*
Fullbacks: W Jordan, J BarrettI agree on most of this with a couple of exceptions;
- You’ve left out Akira Ioane, one of the best performers in Test 3.
- I would include Patty T, personal bias but also same reasoning as Laulala ie, experience. If Whitelock falls over you’re left with Barrett who we want at 6 and Vaa’i with a newbie on the bench? Too much risk.
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@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
Ian Foster set to be retained as All Blacks coach - for now at least
