Foster, Robertson etc
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@Billy-Tell You get the feeling that the decision has already been made. Razor must be coaching Fiji after his subtle comment. He seemed very relaxed now it is more of a case of who will fill in the coaching roster.
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There's a good chance NZR will mess it up
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@Billy-Tell said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Rennie fairly hopeless results with Aussie. Gatland is a public relations nightmare and hasn’t achieved anything much of note in NZ. Schmidt had a mare at 2 RWCs.
hot take: I think all three are very very good coaches, and wouldn't be out of place coaching the ABs. They are all behind others though ... but it shows the depth of NZ coaching development.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@TheMojoman in what way?
Yeah I am wondering in what way too. Sounds to me like a job applicant knows whether he has been successful or not and is waiting for the result to be announced so he can talk about it. Happens all the time in my 'industry'.
Just comes across as a lack of humility (Foster is still coach and may not have been informed yet) and obviously ran too far ahead of the NZ Rugby who quickly tries to cover it up.
Anyway the guy deserves it, he’s done his apprenticeship and has been successful in everything he’s touched. Long may that continue.
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@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Tim you have to wonder if Foster had any intention to stay on anyway, win or lose.
Nope, times up. There’s the door.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Dan54 i think hes being a bit cheeky...but he hasn;t gone off and just posted somethign out of the blue on his socials, a reporter has gone down there and asked questions, he could has said "no comment" but thats not the vibe in NZ rugby generally...he could have lied and said he didn;t know...but then looked stupid in a couple of weeks time when we all think "he must have known"....or he can say "I know but its not for me to announce'....
He could have said "in the fullness of time, rugby will be the winner on the day"
Even if he was given a guarantee or an ultimatum, if I was him and received it from NZR, I wouldn't count on it. -
@Billy-Tell said in Foster, Robertson etc:
As a general rule, any coach any person with a record like Robertson deserves a shot at the ABs. If I think of other nz coaches who have impressed: Joseph with Japan, Crowley with Italy. Haig wasn’t too bad with Georgia. Rennie fairly hopeless results with Aussie. Gatland is a public relations nightmare and hasn’t achieved anything much of note in NZ. Schmidt had a mare at 2 RWCs.
If we’re going non-kiwi, Farrell has done a fantastic job with Ireland.
I agreed with the above but why would Farrell leave the top rugby team in the world for the third best?
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Can't understand the twisted criticism of Razor. He's done nothing wrong.
His intelligence and enthusiasm is exactly what is needed.
If Razor has inside knowledge not his fault. NZR have a very poor recent record of management. -
@BerniesCorner disagree, if you got a job like this surely you have the nous to check before making statements. You can be enthusiatic as buggery, but you also got to know what to say to press.
I will add I not quite sure what he said anyway, I not sure if what he meant about an annonuncement in next few days, was it about the Fiji job? It was quite a mixed press interview, not sure if it was Razor's fault ot how it had been editted. -
@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@BerniesCorner disagree, if you got a job like this surely you have the nous to check before making statements. You can be enthusiatic as buggery, but you also got to know what to say to press.
I will add I not quite sure what he said anyway, I not sure if what he meant about an annonuncement in next few days, was it about the Fiji job? It was quite a mixed press interview, not sure if it was Razor's fault ot how it had been edited.Robertson is obviously an excellent coach. But he doesn't come across as well as say Henry in front of the camera's. Or Joseph. Maybe NZR need to look at a director of rugby. with Robertson as the head coach
But unlike when he last went for the top AB coaching job I support him getting it now. Before I preferred Jamie Joseph with Brown assisting last time the AB replaced Hanson.
I want to see how he gets on. Hopefully he won't just stack the side with Crusaders and turn out to be a great AB coach. We certainly need this now (less so 4 years back). Back to No1 in the world
What unfolded on Wednesday wasn't Robertson's flashest day in front of the microphones. In the wider scheme of things, however, it was a minor kerfuffle.
He's a rugby coach, not a public relations officer. He knows how to galvanise young men and mould them into a team that's capable of winning titles. NZ Rugby only need to look at his record.
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Well perhaps NZR needed to speak to the incumbents, then the new recruit(s). The rest is NZR bollocks.
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Hey we are so impressed with you, here's a new job. But don't tell anyone.
Some obvious calls need to be made ASAP. SW captain, Paps 7, JB 12, Razor 2024 and then move on. -
@BerniesCorner said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Well perhaps NZR needed to speak to the incumbents, then the new recruit(s). The rest is NZR bollocks.
How do you know that hasn't hapened.
Some much of this is bullshit wound up by media speculation feeding a public that are fixated on an outcome when the process to get there is very real and has many implications for many involved parties, not to mention that there are very real possibilities of tripping the organisation up financially.
I'm not saying that we should have full confidence in the competency of NZRU but they are there to do a job not jump to the whim of the media and public pressure.My speculative theory is that the recent announcements by senior players plays a part in being able to find a path through this to best serve everybody and give the right messages to the team. eg "the board feels that the large change in senior personnel is a prime opportunity for a fresh coaching approach at that time".
This provides the current squad and coaches with a set window, not undermined by thoughts of pressure for after the RWC and provides the incoming coaching team an ability to start planning ahead.
If that was to happen I really hope that the press keep well away from asking the incoming coaches questions and fishing for soundbites on performances. -
@BerniesCorner said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Well perhaps NZR needed to speak to the incumbents, then the new recruit(s). The rest is NZR bollocks.
Actually I think you find the NZR do speak to the encumbents and even senior players etc so everyone has idea of what going on. What they don't need to do is speak to every Tom , Dick and Harry who have an opinion on rugby forums etc. Only perhaps the encumbents etc also don't feel the need to tell everyone else who it doesn't concern. None of us need to know whether the decision is made, and probably the thing about Razor making comments about whether he thibks he has got job or not is, that timing should only be done by NZR so anyone else that is interested or applying (if they have missed out) need to be informed by NZR, not reading it in press!
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Part of where NZR shoot themselves in the foot is that they don't release decision by dates.
If they said we will make a decision on the AB coaching role by XX date then it would be simply a matter of saying "we are running a process and by XX date you will all have your answer."
That is all anyone would have to say.
But they leave it open and wishy washing and apparently talk to this person and that person "behind closed doors" while also apparently "running a process" and apparently this year "that process" has changed and wonder why there's a lot of speculation and people filling in the gaps.
They've created this monster themselves and I have little sympathy for them.
I actually have quite a lot of sympathy for any poor sod caught up in this whole AB coach debacle - including Foster himself.
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@Windows97 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Part of where NZR shoot themselves in the foot is that they don't release decision by dates.
If they said we will make a decision on the AB coaching role by XX date then it would be simply a matter of saying "we are running a process and by XX date you will all have your answer.I disagree. In the real world NZRU must abide by legal and employment processes to be fair to their employees and contractors. So they follow a process in assessing options, seek ratification through Board and then complete all the paperwork. With agents and lawyers around that can take indefinite time. That is why nothing gets announced until it is cast in stone and dates are rarely given. To do anything else is disrespectful and prejudicial on employees and contractors and sets up for grievance claims. If one part of the chain breaks then they can get significant delays. So it would be stupidity to publicly set a date that those they are negotiating with can pressure them on.
Meanwhile the media keeps beating up to fuel redneck expectations on social media and genuine fans get wound up too.
Perhaps NZRU are instead aware of all the factors involved and trying to prioritise the welfare and needs of all those they are responsible for. Or maybe I am entirely off the mark because nobody in the media has promoted that view....
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@ARHS said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Windows97 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Part of where NZR shoot themselves in the foot is that they don't release decision by dates.
If they said we will make a decision on the AB coaching role by XX date then it would be simply a matter of saying "we are running a process and by XX date you will all have your answer.I disagree. In the real world NZRU must abide by legal and employment processes to be fair to their employees and contractors. So they follow a process in assessing options, seek ratification through Board and then complete all the paperwork. With agents and lawyers around that can take indefinite time. That is why nothing gets announced until it is cast in stone and dates are rarely given. To do anything else is disrespectful and prejudicial on employees and contractors and sets up for grievance claims. If one part of the chain breaks then they can get significant delays. So it would be stupidity to publicly set a date that those they are negotiating with can pressure them on.
Meanwhile the media keeps beating up to fuel redneck expectations on social media and genuine fans get wound up too.
Perhaps NZRU are instead aware of all the factors involved and trying to prioritise the welfare and needs of all those they are responsible for. Or maybe I am entirely off the mark because nobody in the media has promoted that view....
Totally agree with this post.
NZR do not have to provide a decision date to the public or media when that date may well form a part of their negotiations.
Let's say the JJ is the preferred coach but he asks that he be given a certain period of time to work through his current contractual situation with Japan. If that fell outside of the time you had said to media then even more questions are raised.
Let the process take its course FFS. -
@TheMojoman said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Tim you have to wonder if Foster had any intention to stay on anyway, win or lose.
Nope, times up. There’s the door.
Yeah - in the spirit of the thread - to reiterate what I said 6 months ago.
NZRU - "Ian - this is your shot at the RWC. Tell us what you need. We want you to win it and we are supporting you all the way. But, afterwards, we are changing direction regardless of the result, because your record in the interim hasn't been good enough."
Ian might not like it, but it's a pretty fair stance.
Mitch got sacked with an 82% record. Wayne Smith got sacked with a 70% record. Fozzie's at 68% - a few percentage points off the (Uncle Laurie's) worst winning record of the past 40 years.
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@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
a few percentage points off the (Uncle Laurie's) worst winning record of the past 40 years.
So all we need from Fozzie is to pretty much match Uncle Laurie's RWC record, but, ensure they have their own chef and a food tester.
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@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@TheMojoman said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Tim you have to wonder if Foster had any intention to stay on anyway, win or lose.
Nope, times up. There’s the door.
Yeah - in the spirit of the thread - to reiterate what I said 6 months ago.
NZRU - "Ian - this is your shot at the RWC. Tell us what you need. We want you to win it and we are supporting you all the way. But, afterwards, we are changing direction regardless of the result, because your record in the interim hasn't been good enough."
Ian might not like it, but it's a pretty fair stance.
Mitch got sacked with an 82% record. Wayne Smith got sacked with a 70% record. Fozzie's at 68% - a few percentage points off the (Uncle Laurie's) worst winning record of the past 40 years.
Is Wayne Smith really above Fozzie, AND got sacked for that record? I thought Fozzie had a 71% record (with 2 draws), so they are equal - but Fozzie has exactly double the games. John Hart was around 73%. Was Mitch actually sacked for his 'record'?
Farrell and Galthie are a step above that, as was Rod Macqueen, and Eddie Jones by a tad - but nobody else besides Hansen and Henry and Mitch. There are some well respected coaches with a worse record than Fozzie.
