Foster, Robertson etc
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The plus side of the whole saga is that we've probably got a significantly increased chance of winning RWC2023, than we had 6 weeks ago.
Foster, Schmidt, Ryan possibly gives us a legitimate chance, where Foster, Plumtree, Mooar only looked like potential burglars to me. Fozzie has also had his 2007 Henry moment, without having to lose a World Cup to experience it.
Since 2015, I haven't really had the impression that the AB coaches are working in the "leave absolutely no stone unturned in the quest to win" mode that we had from 2007-2011.
Fozzie's fright may get them back in that mode for 2023. And he hopefully has some guys on his staff who have the technical ability to win it rather than fluke it.
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The plus side of the whole saga is that we've probably got a significantly increased chance of winning RWC2023, than we had 6 weeks ago.
Foster, Schmidt, Ryan possibly gives us a legitimate chance, where Foster, Plumtree, Mooar only looked like potential burglars to me. Fozzie has also had his 2007 Henry moment, without having to lose a World Cup to experience it.
Since 2015, I haven't really had the impression that the AB coaches are working in the "leave absolutely no stone unturned in the quest to win" mode that we had from 2007-2011.
Fozzie's fright may get them back in that mode for 2023. And he hopefully has some guys on his staff who have the technical ability to win it rather than fluke it.
I had hoped he had his "henry 2007 moment" in 2019, he may not have been the boss but he was there and continuity and having already learnt lessons was kind of his soap box for the job
i hope you're right though
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@Kiwiwomble I don't think the NZ rugby public was particularly pissed off at not winning in 2019 - not in the "it's been 20 fucking years and now it's four more!!!" mode, anyway. I don't think Hansen and Fozzie would have wondered whether they could live in NZ after the loss.
Significantly more vitriol this year, I think.
Fozzie has now had his arse kicked and will know an equally severe one is coming if he falls short next year.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't think the NZ rugby public was particularly pissed off at not winning in 2019 - not in the "it's been 20 fucking years and now it's four more!!!" mode, anyway. I don't think Hansen and Fozzie would have wondered whether they could live in NZ after the loss.
Significantly more vitriol this year, I think.
Fozzie has now had his arse kicked and will know an equally severe one is coming if he falls short next year.
I actually don't think we have been more underdogs going into a WC. Anyone who is watching would realise that France would have to be favourites, followed by Irish. Really believe that not sure why we keep assuming we should be favouritesto win the thing. We are not behind France and Ireland because we are poor, but because they are bloody good teams in my opinion.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't think the NZ rugby public was particularly pissed off at not winning in 2019 - not in the "it's been 20 fucking years and now it's four more!!!" mode, anyway. I don't think Hansen and Fozzie would have wondered whether they could live in NZ after the loss.
Significantly more vitriol this year, I think.
Fozzie has now had his arse kicked and will know an equally severe one is coming if he falls short next year.
I actually don't think we have been more underdogs going into a WC. Anyone who is watching would realise that France would have to be favourites, followed by Irish. Really believe that not sure why we keep assuming we should be favouritesto win the thing. We are not behind France and Ireland because we are poor, but because they are bloody good teams in my opinion.
Not sure we haven't been poor,I think we have over the last 2 1/2 years.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't think the NZ rugby public was particularly pissed off at not winning in 2019 - not in the "it's been 20 fucking years and now it's four more!!!" mode, anyway. I don't think Hansen and Fozzie would have wondered whether they could live in NZ after the loss.
Significantly more vitriol this year, I think.
Fozzie has now had his arse kicked and will know an equally severe one is coming if he falls short next year.
I actually don't think we have been more underdogs going into a WC. Anyone who is watching would realise that France would have to be favourites, followed by Irish. Really believe that not sure why we keep assuming we should be favouritesto win the thing. We are not behind France and Ireland because we are poor, but because they are bloody good teams in my opinion.
They are bloody good teams but we have also been very poor. I have never seen an All Black team so clueless and not even in the fight before Ellis Park.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster:
@Kiwiwomble I don't think the NZ rugby public was particularly pissed off at not winning in 2019 - not in the "it's been 20 fucking years and now it's four more!!!" mode, anyway. I don't think Hansen and Fozzie would have wondered whether they could live in NZ after the loss.
Significantly more vitriol this year, I think.
Fozzie has now had his arse kicked and will know an equally severe one is coming if he falls short next year.
I actually don't think we have been more underdogs going into a WC. Anyone who is watching would realise that France would have to be favourites, followed by Irish. Really believe that not sure why we keep assuming we should be favouritesto win the thing. We are not behind France and Ireland because we are poor, but because they are bloody good teams in my opinion.
They are bloody good teams but we have also been very poor. I have never seen an All Black team so clueless and not even in the fight before Ellis Park.
I had. The 3rd Irish test.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't think the NZ rugby public was particularly pissed off at not winning in 2019 - not in the "it's been 20 fucking years and now it's four more!!!" mode, anyway. I don't think Hansen and Fozzie would have wondered whether they could live in NZ after the loss.
Significantly more vitriol this year, I think.
Fozzie has now had his arse kicked and will know an equally severe one is coming if he falls short next year.
I actually don't think we have been more underdogs going into a WC. Anyone who is watching would realise that France would have to be favourites, followed by Irish. Really believe that not sure why we keep assuming we should be favouritesto win the thing. We are not behind France and Ireland because we are poor, but because they are bloody good teams in my opinion.
Well, I certainly haven't said anything about us being favourites.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't think the NZ rugby public was particularly pissed off at not winning in 2019 - not in the "it's been 20 fucking years and now it's four more!!!" mode, anyway. I don't think Hansen and Fozzie would have wondered whether they could live in NZ after the loss.
Significantly more vitriol this year, I think.
Fozzie has now had his arse kicked and will know an equally severe one is coming if he falls short next year.
I actually don't think we have been more underdogs going into a WC. Anyone who is watching would realise that France would have to be favourites, followed by Irish. Really believe that not sure why we keep assuming we should be favouritesto win the thing. We are not behind France and Ireland because we are poor, but because they are bloody good teams in my opinion.
Not sure we haven't been poor,I think we have over the last 2 1/2 years.
Yep mate, but I seem to recall ebverytime we go through a slump of any kind, we tend to say it's us, and perhaps don't look at how good other teams are. Not sure if you remember but basically the French team that is playing now easily won the U20 comp in 2016 or 17, and we were knocked out at Qfs or something, can't remember the year, think it was Razor's second year as coach? Not saying we haven't been well off pace, but you look at super rugby last few years very very ordinary I think, but even that I not sure about as it been so f***ed up with covid etc. But you probably pretty right, we need some real good world class players coming through pretty badly.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't think the NZ rugby public was particularly pissed off at not winning in 2019 - not in the "it's been 20 fucking years and now it's four more!!!" mode, anyway. I don't think Hansen and Fozzie would have wondered whether they could live in NZ after the loss.
Significantly more vitriol this year, I think.
Fozzie has now had his arse kicked and will know an equally severe one is coming if he falls short next year.
I actually don't think we have been more underdogs going into a WC. Anyone who is watching would realise that France would have to be favourites, followed by Irish. Really believe that not sure why we keep assuming we should be favouritesto win the thing. We are not behind France and Ireland because we are poor, but because they are bloody good teams in my opinion.
Well, I certainly haven't said anything about us being favourites.
Fair enough to mate. we would hope to be in top 4 at most, and once we make knock out stages , it can be a bit of a lottery.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't think the NZ rugby public was particularly pissed off at not winning in 2019 - not in the "it's been 20 fucking years and now it's four more!!!" mode, anyway. I don't think Hansen and Fozzie would have wondered whether they could live in NZ after the loss.
Significantly more vitriol this year, I think.
Fozzie has now had his arse kicked and will know an equally severe one is coming if he falls short next year.
I actually don't think we have been more underdogs going into a WC. Anyone who is watching would realise that France would have to be favourites, followed by Irish. Really believe that not sure why we keep assuming we should be favouritesto win the thing. We are not behind France and Ireland because we are poor, but because they are bloody good teams in my opinion.
Not sure we haven't been poor,I think we have over the last 2 1/2 years.
Yep mate, but I seem to recall ebverytime we go through a slump of any kind, we tend to say it's us, and perhaps don't look at how good other teams are. Not sure if you remember but basically the French team that is playing now easily won the U20 comp in 2016 or 17, and we were knocked out at Qfs or something, can't remember the year, think it was Razor's second year as coach? Not saying we haven't been well off pace, but you look at super rugby last few years very very ordinary I think, but even that I not sure about as it been so f***ed up with covid etc. But you probably pretty right, we need some real good world class players coming through pretty badly.
That is true , but it is the way we lost,
Tactically we’re we’re poor and clueless,some bad selections, not a decent game plan anywhere,
We could have been better with a real plan of how we were going to play and combat the rush defence etc we were tactically poor.
We would have been better against France and Ireland with some more thought out coaching strategies. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
Although, as I said earlier, I think Hansen has to share some of the blame. He talked him up, based on f-all.
As did the AB's themselves - inc. veterans like Savea, Whitelock & Mo'unga who have worked under 2 or 3 head coaches. Not sure what your point is other than to keep going back over old ground again and again.
Well, if moving on to new ground is just wishful thinking, which I suspect it is, then it's not an improvement. Until we see the selections and tactics for the next four games we have no idea if things are better.
Players will like or dislike a coach based on all sorts of reasons, but whatever they think they are hardly going to say the truth publicly. We won't know how they really feel until they retire and write their books.
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@Kiwiwomble I don't think the NZ rugby public was particularly pissed off at not winning in 2019 - not in the "it's been 20 fucking years and now it's four more!!!" mode, anyway. I don't think Hansen and Fozzie would have wondered whether they could live in NZ after the loss.
Significantly more vitriol this year, I think.
Fozzie has now had his arse kicked and will know an equally severe one is coming if he falls short next year.
I actually don't think we have been more underdogs going into a WC. Anyone who is watching would realise that France would have to be favourites, followed by Irish. Really believe that not sure why we keep assuming we should be favouritesto win the thing. We are not behind France and Ireland because we are poor, but because they are bloody good teams in my opinion.
Not sure we haven't been poor,I think we have over the last 2 1/2 years.
Yep mate, but I seem to recall ebverytime we go through a slump of any kind, we tend to say it's us, and perhaps don't look at how good other teams are. Not sure if you remember but basically the French team that is playing now easily won the U20 comp in 2016 or 17, and we were knocked out at Qfs or something, can't remember the year, think it was Razor's second year as coach? Not saying we haven't been well off pace, but you look at super rugby last few years very very ordinary I think, but even that I not sure about as it been so f***ed up with covid etc. But you probably pretty right, we need some real good world class players coming through pretty badly.
The French U20 team, of which several players are now in their senior squad, beat our NZ U20 in the JWC semi-finals in 2018. France won the last two (pre-covid) tournaments (2018 and 2019). Several of those players already played in the Top 14 prior to playing in that U20 team.
Edited to add that of that 2018 NZ U20 team, Sotutu, Clarke and L Fainga'anuku are now All Blacks. (Will Jordan wasn't in that NZ U20 squad due to injury). Other players who (I think) have the potential to become All Blacks are Bailyn Sullivan and Devan Flanders.
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@Stargazer
The latter two will have to leave the Canes if they want to become All Blacks. -
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@Stargazer Ahead of Billy Proctor? Never!
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@Stargazer
The latter two will have to leave the Canes if they want to become All Blacks.I am really disappointed that I am saying this, but I doubt Flanders will be an AB. Maybe injury cover at best. I had high hopes for him, but even at NPC level I don't think he is looking like a standout. Long way to go for him.
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@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
@Stargazer
The latter two will have to leave the Canes if they want to become All Blacks.I am really disappointed that I am saying this, but I doubt Flanders will be an AB. Maybe injury cover at best. I had high hopes for him, but even at NPC level I don't think he is looking like a standout. Long way to go for him.
Yeah he seems to have kind of gone backwards since his debut and been overtaken by a few others. Still , he's bloody young so wouldn't rule him out. But with Sotutu, Grace looking like the future and guys like Plumtree, Delaney, Iose, Howden, etc all putting in better performances, he's got an uphill battle.
I thought Sullivan did get a decent amount of gametime too? I thought he was the centre by the end of the season?
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Flanders has struggled a lot with his knee injury for more than 12 months (in and out of the injury ward) and hasn't had enough consistent game time for the Canes due to the Hurricanes' coaches love for Prinsep. He played in only 6 SRP games this year, and only 2 of those were starts. If he had had the same opportunites as some of the other players mentioned, he probably would have made more progress. It would be absolutely stupid to already write him off as a potential All Black. I don't think Plumtree, Delany, Iose and Howden are ahead of him at all.
IMO he has been excellent in his first few NPC outings. His work off the back of the scrum and in the line-out has been superb. I question the coaches' player management though, as he has played 4 matches in 21 days, and all of those for the full 80 minutes.
Anyway, this is probably the wrong thread to discuss this.
