Foster, Robertson etc
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@mariner4life said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I don't think Ian Foster is doing a good job as the head coach. But, i also believe our player development in NZ has stalled over the past few years. Maybe not helped by spending all the time playing ourselves, or the Aussies who have their own issues. The best players in the country are in the squad. But some of them are not good enough.
Other than Samisoni who are the tight forwards who have come through in the last 5 years for the ABs?
Other than Samisoni those that have come through don't exactly scream 'future world xv contender'. They are placeholders.
and ST doesn't get nearly enough game time.
That's the big issue.
I'm more hopeful for the next 5 years looking at the pipeline but there's going to continue to be a suffering in between.
It will be interesting to see if Jason Ryan can help some of these guys lift their performances in the meantime.
Bower, I guess - but, I agree - the problems are more in the tight five than in the backs - and the tight five problems are compounded by imbalances in the loose forwards (some e.g. Barrett at 6 may be a reflection of the tight five weaknesses).
Some places in the tight five we don't really have the players to make significant improvement. Despite complaints about our locks, there's not anyone making a compelling case to start ahead of Whitelock, Retallick and Barrett right now.
Bower seems as good as anyone - and we'll learn more about de Groot and Ross in Moody's absence.
Hooker seems an obvious place for improvement and it will be interesting to see if Ryan makes an immediate shift to Sami T. starting. I hope so.
Tighthead prop - well, we're about to find out more about Ta'avao, Lomax and Newell. We may get a lesson we don't like, but at least we'll find out a bit more about test readiness. We certainly need to do better than what our tightheads produced vs Ireland.
Put together a stronger international tight five and many of the subsidiary problems will likely evaporate.
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@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Put together a stronger international tight five and many of the subsidiary problems will likely evaporate
with a pattern that allows them to shine.
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@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Put together a stronger international tight five and many of the subsidiary problems will likely evaporate.
And when you find a player stick with him!
I'm still scratching my head over the omission of Sami T from the third test. First test Taylor makes 5 tackles in the first 60 and Sami 16 in the last 20. Isn't that just what we are after?
Funny also how media commentators are making that exact same point yet I haven't seen/heard a single reporter ask Foster about that. We got a half arsed reply that the set piece was doing well with Taylor on and didn't that bite us in the arse.
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@Chris-B I still feel the lack of mobility of our props (running, cleaning, tackling) for the past few seasons has meant our aging locks have had an extra load, coupled with a loose trio that doesnt seem to compliment one another, starting hookers form on the decline, it is compounding the issues.
Therefore, IMO if our props up thier workload, it allows our locks a bit more freedom, I mean Brodie in the loose is a sight to behold.
As I and others have mentioned, their focus on scrummaging props in our lineup when the game sees maybe 1 scrum to 2 or 3 lineouts, we really need to find props who can hold thier side up, but get about and work!
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Moffett on Robinson
Moffett, who was NZR chief executive between 1996 and 2000, and held the same role with the Welsh union from 2002 to 2005, believes Robinson should leave his post, and found it deplorable that he was “swanning around in Birmingham” instead of fronting media in New Zealand.
This bit on Plumtree and Mooar is interesting. There reputation has been trashed the way its been handled. Both has good jobs before they took on the assistants jobs. Now they might find it hard to find future work
If I was them, I would be looking for a really good, top-notch employment lawyer, because their coaching careers have been trashed by the way in which they’ve been dealt with,” Moffett said. “They had a review six months ago which confirmed Foster and the coaches were right for the job, six months later things have got so bad that they’ve had to make a couple of sacrificial lambs. “And if they think that anybody in New Zealand thinks that Mooar and Plumtree were responsible for where the All Blacks are today, then these guys are kidding themselves. Nobody’s going to believe that. -
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@Winger said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
If I was them, I would be looking for a really good, top-notch employment lawyer, because their coaching careers have been trashed by the way in which they’ve been dealt with,” Moffett said.
“They had a review six months ago which confirmed Foster and the coaches were right for the job, six months later things have got so bad that they’ve had to make a couple of sacrificial lambs.
Not really sure Moffett can make these claims given he has zero knowledge of what happened in earlier reviews. All signs point to Plumtree and Mooar reviewing badly previously.
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@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I'm still scratching my head over the omission of Sami T from the third test.
"We wanted to give all the hookers a run - so we left our best one behind." - Ian Foster Esq. 2022
FIFY
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Not really sure Moffett can make these claims given he has zero knowledge of what happened in earlier reviews. All signs point to Plumtree and Mooar reviewing badly previously.
As I said previously, Moffett is a rent-a-quote for the media. Maybe he is talking from experience with the way he fucked over Welsh rugby with the introduction of regional teams.
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@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Every man and their dog climbing in the NZR Management now...
The things he doesn't mention but thar earlier story does is that it seems there is a big review already underway/done as part of the Silverlake due diligence. I have to wonder if that is playing a major role here. The management is maybe too aware of rocking boats until the cheque is signed. It's a poor strategy though and is having the opposite effect.
I fuckin love people coming out and saying what they feel about how things are.
NZR communications with the public have been piss poor this far. -
@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Winger said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
If I was them, I would be looking for a really good, top-notch employment lawyer, because their coaching careers have been trashed by the way in which they’ve been dealt with,” Moffett said.
“They had a review six months ago which confirmed Foster and the coaches were right for the job, six months later things have got so bad that they’ve had to make a couple of sacrificial lambs.
Not really sure Moffett can make these claims given he has zero knowledge of what happened in earlier reviews. All signs point to Plumtree and Mooar reviewing badly previously.
IF they did. But then why were they kept on at that time. (And employed. It reflects poorly on Foster) And if they did this should have been kept very quiet. Plumtree has been coaching for many years at different levels yet now he's a bad coach.
Its all been handled very poorly. And where's Robinson why all this is going on. Hes not fronting the media. It could eb done even from the UK
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@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Every man and their dog climbing in the NZR Management now...
The things he doesn't mention but thar earlier story does is that it seems there is a big review already underway/done as part of the Silverlake due diligence. I have to wonder if that is playing a major role here. The management is maybe too aware of rocking boats until the cheque is signed. It's a poor strategy though and is having the opposite effect.
I fuckin love people coming out and saying what they feel about how things are.
NZR communications with the public have been piss poor this far.My view is NZR needs a good clean out again. As was done after the Aust WRC mess
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@Winger said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Winger said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
If I was them, I would be looking for a really good, top-notch employment lawyer, because their coaching careers have been trashed by the way in which they’ve been dealt with,” Moffett said.
“They had a review six months ago which confirmed Foster and the coaches were right for the job, six months later things have got so bad that they’ve had to make a couple of sacrificial lambs.
Not really sure Moffett can make these claims given he has zero knowledge of what happened in earlier reviews. All signs point to Plumtree and Mooar reviewing badly previously.
IF they did. But then why were they kept on at that time. (And employed. It reflects poorly on Foster) And if they did this should have been kept very quiet. Plumtree has been coaching for many years at different levels yet now he's a bad coach.
Its all been handled very poorly. And where's Robinson why all this is going on. Hes not fronting the media. It could eb done even from the UK
Similar situation to Glen Moore. Reviews weren't good, he was reappointed, then canned after a much deeper review sparked after a public player meltdown on top of a poor women's game review. Then he was made to look like the scapegoat. If you read the reviews, he did little wrong except have a job in a poorly set up and resourced structure.
I can see where the accusations of poor management from the top are coming from. They had an opportunity much earlier to re-organise the womens' game without Moore carrying the can. He could have departed on good terms with it pitched as professionalism coming in, we need a re-org, we have a RWC to host and need to throw the kitchen sink at the team.
Now we have them missing an opportunity to reorg the ABs in the off season without it looking like a blame game and they missed that as well.
Compound that with a CEO that issues a very inflammatory statement then says nothing afterwards? There's certainly some poor thinking/ advice going on. -
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris-B I still feel the lack of mobility of our props (running, cleaning, tackling) for the past few seasons has meant our aging locks have had an extra load, coupled with a loose trio that doesnt seem to compliment one another, starting hookers form on the decline, it is compounding the issues.
Therefore, IMO if our props up thier workload, it allows our locks a bit more freedom, I mean Brodie in the loose is a sight to behold.
As I and others have mentioned, their focus on scrummaging props in our lineup when the game sees maybe 1 scrum to 2 or 3 lineouts, we really need to find props who can hold thier side up, but get about and work!
In a way, we've got what we've got - until the next generation comes through. It's problematic when we've got to have people covering other people's jobs - and picking someone to address one problem creates another.
That's why I'm pleased to see Newell there.
He'll make some mistakes, probably get his arse handed to him a couple of times, but he's very promising. Handed a few arse kickings out himself in Super rugby.
By this time next year, maybe he'll have solved one problem.
I wrote a longer post earlier this year about the scrum. I REALLY like having dominant scrum.
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i tell you what, a prime, injury free Keith Robinson would go down a fucking treat right now.
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@taniwharugby said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew well given the issues showed signs in 2016 and really started bedding in circa 2017/2018, I think the fact none of the coaching team responded to this at the time is a big part of the problem...Maybe Fozzie is a good coach, but the ingrained issues that have been festering for near on 5 years now are now a major issue, but no one did anything about it, until now (Hansen and his team, that included Foster, and then Foster and his team)
It should be on them to identify issues in our game at the top, which will be there at Super and start working with Super coaches to fix these...this isnt on NZR, they are responsible for a completely separate pile of shit!
Tend to agree with much of that but don't think everything to do with solving player issues at the top is down to one bloke and/or his assistants to identify, negotiate with all the coaches in the land and fix. That's a role for NZR overall as they are the ones with the bandwidth, clout and ability to manage player performance and skill levels overall at the top level - obviously after feed-in from the AB coaching team & players.
Would be interesting to know if Hansen, Foster and the senior players have raised issues with NZR and what the response was. Not that we're likely to find out with the current comms strategy.
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@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Foster is a problem and Razor would be a better coach. I am not sure why you are doubting this.
I admire your absolute certainty, I really do. He's a great coach at SR level, but think about where we'd be if Robertson repeats his U20 record with the AB's. In an ideal world he'd have taken an Assistant role so he could ease himself in but he turned that down saying it was head-honcho or nothing. You can say he didn't want to work under a clown, but the optics are poor.
Fair enough. But ceteris paribus, we gotta go with the best coach we can find first to see if that has a major influence. As for testing that coach, we would want to see an improvement in coherency, playing style, and yes results.
I don't see the ABs as a "suck it and see", experimental test-tube environment - we have to do better than that.
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@mariner4life his game prep flash cards would have ratings on which fluffybunnies to smash first. Probably get a slab and half a carcass for hitting bingo.
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
And I'd add that sacking the coaching staff without addressing those problems runs a real risk of making the situation actually worse.
I'm not sure how much worse it can get to be perfectly honest. That first half vs Ireland in test 3 is in the conversation for the worst half played by an All Black team in history.
If you are going to focus on one half of one game, then yes, I'd agree. (Personally the 2007 quarter final & RWC2019 semi was the worse I've seen)
But imagine if NZR went with public opinion & sacked a coach the players respected (which they certainly seem to) and that exacerbated the NZR/Player relationship problem Hansen talked about. Would that improve the team culture, execution of game plan, player availability etc or make it worse do you think?
And if the new coach managed, despite that, to gain the team's confidence, but didn't perform and he got sacked (like Foster) for poor results, then what?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Personally the 2007 quarter final
That's interesting, the ABs were dominant in that game. It just the ref decided not to ref what was going on
