All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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That was about the worst AB defeat since a good while. Tried the exact same tactics as last week and surprise surprise Ireland has adapted.
LF had an absolute shocker and I have no idea what PGS is doing near the ABs. The guy can’t do the basics. Also the DP fan club he was totally and utterly outplayed by Doris and POM.
No tactics just rely on skill. ABs where is the discipline.
One change you can guarantee is WJ starting the next game.
Worst AB coach since mains.
Only bright side was Fakatava.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@The-Irishman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Hello folks, been awhile! I never saw the game, nor last weeks either, only the brief highlights on YouTube. The comment section on YouTube is in stark contrast to the comments in here. I must direct that poster to the fern 😂 Gracious indeed.
Nobody here is making any excuses, every poster to a man is stating that Ireland is unequivocally a much better team than the ABs right now. Better coaches, better gameplan, better forwards, just better across the park. So the discussion has turned to how do we improve, and getting rid of our head coach who has absolutely no track record of success at ANY level is the first step.
Razor has a clear way he gets the Saders to play. Everyone seems to be very sure of their roles and they all function harmoniously as part of the wider team. These are things you can't say about the ABs right now. Things we need
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Posting quickly before going back through the thread.
Disappointing result but not unforeseen.
Like last week I'd suggest the margin was flattering to the winners, especially given the cards.
The Ta'avao card, as I said at half time, was the worst application of the head impact laws I have seen. He made no effort to tackle and just happened to be in the space that Ringrose ran into.
I get the requirement to avoid direct contact to the head, but wandering across in cover and some bloke clatters in to you unexpectedly is hardly worth a Red.
Where was the ball carrier's responsibility to avoid head contact?
Reckon he'll be out longer with concussion than what he gets at the judiciary.
On the upside I'd also expect Newell to get a call up.
Am a little miffed at LF's YC for similar reasons, but he did at least launch himself at the player.
Also, repeating my pissedoffedness at the substitution debacle. Admittedly once they got Ofa back on they had to drag someone so not as bad as I first thought, but why swap out a loosie when there was no need? They could not play Ross on the TH, as he was the nominated LH.
So, down to 13 you've got to admire the D to prevent any points being scored. But you've got to think playing for 60+ minutes with less than a full complement the result between two balanced sides was kind of inevitable.
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
- We're still too porous on defence. That first try seemed a carbon copy of last week. Couple of easy breaks then try and defend the inevitable.
Not sure if coaching:
- Handling skills. WTF? Is this the players or are they being asked to catch the impossible?
Positive Learnings*:
- Despite my whinge about defence above, our D against an extra man was commendable.
Will now subject myself to the thread ...
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@The-Irishman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Hello folks, been awhile! I never saw the game, nor last weeks either, only the brief highlights on YouTube. The comment section on YouTube is in stark contrast to the comments in here. I must direct that poster to the fern 😂 Gracious indeed.
43 posts in total. And didn't watch either test. I enjoyed your post though. Even though it seems like a pointless piss take
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I don't care how good this Irish side is, we played shit and have been playing shit since 2018-ish. That's not disrespectful to the opposition. No one thinks Foster is a good coach, so why is it disrespectful to say we played like headless chickens?
Prediction: Foster sneaks a win in this series and the Bled then gets bundled out of the RWC in the quarters or semis and retires. And that's being highly optimistic.
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So what needs to change? They need a different TH but with the squad options and the suspension for the RC, will have to be Ofa. Stick the chiefs hooker in or at least bring him on earlier. PT should be nowhere near the 23, maybe Vaa’i. Loose forward mix was not right. We could bring akira in but he’s not a line out option. Anyone but PGS on the bench, maybe sotutu.
In the backs, the best FB in SR was will Jordan he can go to 15. Either drop Jordie or move him to 12. No doubt they will play Jordan at 14 though. Havili or Goodhue into 12, if only to shore up the porous defence.
Tactics: earn the right to go wide. Where are the pick n goes, the blindside snipes, the kicking for touch rather than handing back possession? Play territory but tramlines not mindless midfield hoofs. Once players sucked in then use the wide pass.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Stuff you can blame the coaches for:
- What was with the midfield high kicks? All it did was gift the ball and field position to Ireland. Seemed a complete waste of ball.
If my memory serves me right these were the first few plays of game.
- We kick off, and Ireland do what Ireland do and exit extremely well either via Lowe or Park and get the ball out around half way nearly every time.
- We get the ball, don't really make any ground and BB or AS put in a midfield bomb.
- Ireland defuse the bomb more often than not, regather, play some structure then kick us back into our half or 22.
So in only a few phases Ireland have us under pressure and to be honest this is simple rugby. Play for territory, pressure the opposition on D whilst they try to exit and hope they make mistakes.
If Ireland could finish their attacks they would be a very difficult team to beat.
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I think we also need to realise that the disconnect between SR and Test rugby is hurting us and not playing SA sides is also hurting. The 6 Nations and European comps seem to be really strong and have helped the NH sides immensely. The fact Ireland and Wales just won for the first time away shows their progress.
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@Victor-Meldrew but go with your gut instinct. Can Foster and co deliver the goods.? If not get rid of him sooner than later. If the next guy can’t change things at least we know we don’t have the cattle.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I think we also need to realise that the disconnect between SR and Test rugby is hurting us and not playing SA sides is also hurting. The 6 Nations and European comps seem to be really strong and have helped the NH sides immensely. The fact Ireland and Wales just won for the first time away shows their progress.
It’s not rocket science though. Need a game plan. And all those basics you learn as a kid.
Some of the selections are just disheartening. Like Callum Grace has a fantastic finish to SR and is an absolute line out weapon…so we select PGS who started well then faded away badly. His first 2 touches in both tests are simple dropped balls.
There is no way we are winning RWC with foster in charge. A pool loss to France and a quarter final exit to SA or Ire seems a decent bet tbh.
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I think we also need to realise that the disconnect between SR and Test rugby is hurting us and not playing SA sides is also hurting. The 6 Nations and European comps seem to be really strong and have helped the NH sides immensely. The fact Ireland and Wales just won for the first time away shows their progress.
Ireland didn’t beat the ABs for over a hundred years….they then got fucken close, and have now won four of the next seven !
That’s a huge turnaround. Sure some of them are a bit whiny and unlikeable but lets be thankful BOD never got a win against the MIB and take our hats off to them for their efforts.
MASSIVE game coming up next weekend.
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so, as the dust is settling, what have we learned? Honestly, not much more than last week.
Ireland are a bloody good side. If they get into their pattern with a ref that's sympathetic, we will really struggle to impose ourselves and score points. Last week we saw our forwards going well, and stressing the defence with the carries and quick recycle. This week we saw a defence waiting to swallow up one off ball runners.
If they make mistakes, we destroy them.
If we make mistakes, we lose.
Cards are a lottery, particularly for reckless to mildly reckless play.
Foster is a mediocre coach and it shows.
We struggle to get up in the forwards consistently.
Test rugby has far less space (see Jordan, Mo'unga, Ioane, Leicester. etc).
Ireland are far better drilled than us, and make outstanding decisions consistently at the ruck. It feels like we're not as rugby smart so often these daysAh, that's a frustrating loss. Without a permanent red card it would have been really interesting - going into halftime only 3 down was ridiculous.
Well played Ireland, good win and a better team on the night.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I think we also need to realise that the disconnect between SR and Test rugby is hurting us and not playing SA sides is also hurting. The 6 Nations and European comps seem to be really strong and have helped the NH sides immensely. The fact Ireland and Wales just won for the first time away shows their progress.
It’s not rocket science though. Need a game plan. And all those basics you learn as a kid.
Some of the selections are just disheartening. Like Callum Grace has a fantastic finish to SR and is an absolute line out weapon…so we select PGS who started well then faded away badly. His first 2 touches in both tests are simple dropped balls.
There is no way we are winning RWC with foster in charge. A pool loss to France and a quarter final exit to SA or Ire seems a decent bet tbh.
First ever defeat in the pools? Foster roll of dishonour will just keep on growing! But yeah, that is what I've had in my head since he was appointed, then disgustingly reappointed before NH tour last year. I gave the benefit of the doubt leading up to RWC, dry powder and all, but not anymore. As has been said we need a blues style makeover. NZR can add the bizarre super rugby shit, silver lake debacle, to foster, it needs a clean out
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Didn't see a penalty at the lineout?
The same AR who thought Dalton's one metre clean out was penalty worthy.
That was inventing a penalty for penalty sake. Pretty much a look at me moment.
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@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Why are we bringing on Ross if he's a loosehead?
Have to have two props.
Why?
Have to have a LH and a TH. It was uncontested as we didn't have a TH.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
secondly, the red on Gus. That's the worst example of the head contact protocols I've seen. The very definition of unavoidable.
Get outta town! He ran into the ball carrier, actually accelerated towards him and lined him up! The very definition of avoidable!
Stop it Justin
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We may or may not have the cattle and we can't do much about that, but we can do something about the coaching. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to see the ABs are not a well coached side.
Internally, compare them to how the Crusaders and Blues look. Players know their roles and generally perform them week in and week out. The ABs often looked confused and seem to be required to play a style that they do not have the skills for at test level.
