All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Our problem gents is
If you ever had to go through performance management of an employee you wanted to get rid of
Tonight we have
A terrible yellow card to a winger trying to charge a kick
A prop having an all time shit test
A prop getting red carded despite nearly knocking himself outThat geys very hard to say justified dismissal
What about
-players out of positionevery AB coach in the last 30 years has done that
-gamebreakers on benchsome definitely have been and others more positional options
-doesn't know sub rulesneither did the officials or senior players it seems
-doesn't proactively create new team strategies - I see you got some management speak in there with a useless adverb like “proactively”. You either do something or you don’t.
-doesn't use bench at right timego back through the annuls of TSF and you will find test matches where we have bemoaned bench use.
-relies on BB kicking at the wrong times and in the wrong places - BB’s kicking is definitely an issue
-loses to all sorts of records - legacy means something for sure
-has terrible winning record - haven’t seen the stats comparing his record to others. It can’t be good.
-name a player who has improved under his coaching (Bower? Not improved under Crusaders?)- what happens under the ABs can’t be looked at in isolation. That’s simply not how it works. People might bring up the Nonu example but he was still a damn good rugby player with the Canes, Blues, Landers and kept improving there.So a couple of sackable offences in there I guess 😉
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I love the Fern
Try losing 3, 4, 5 in a row, then get worried
This is the week to see if Fat Boy Slim can coach
If you get pumped again next week and lose the series, that’s when it’s a National Disaster
Until then you’re still the envy of the rugby world
If we get pumped again next week, even I'll make pop-corn.
We could see the greatest ever @Tim rant, and @mariner4life is clearly still far too sober (the Ardie Savea is Messam from Wish thing was fucking gold though)
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@FakatavaAllBlack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwi_expat I wish Razor was appointed coach😔
I'm sure that if he wanted to be an AB assistant, he would be.
I know that this is pure 100% speculation, but this is an AB loss and everyone deserves a turn at the fucking woodshed.
I can see why we might be better off with him there, don't get me wrong.
However, I'll bet that if he wanted to be there as part of the team, he had the opportunity and turned it down.
So, if he is looking at the situation and thinking, I could help, then the obvious answer is why aren't you already there? It's because you only wanted the top job.
Now, assuming I'm wrong and Fozzie didn't want to bring him in, we return to my previous point, which is to fire the fluffybunnies at the boardroom.
However, I'm not prepared to blow Robertson when he could have been there right now trying to help this team get better.
Fuck that. Help the team through a rough patch and the fishheads would surely credit Foster and pat themselves on the back for reappointing the fat fluffy bunny. And if you don't manage to right the ship (because y'know you don't have head coach control) you risk being tarred with the Foster clown brush.
Robertson deserves to be head coach, if we lose this series the drum beats will be deafening.
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@Frye said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@FakatavaAllBlack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwi_expat I wish Razor was appointed coach😔
Robertson deserves to be head coach, if we lose this series the drum beats will be deafening.
Spot on, he is exactly what is needed. and I am a Hurricanes Fan. LOL
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@Frye said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@FakatavaAllBlack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwi_expat I wish Razor was appointed coach😔
I'm sure that if he wanted to be an AB assistant, he would be.
I know that this is pure 100% speculation, but this is an AB loss and everyone deserves a turn at the fucking woodshed.
I can see why we might be better off with him there, don't get me wrong.
However, I'll bet that if he wanted to be there as part of the team, he had the opportunity and turned it down.
So, if he is looking at the situation and thinking, I could help, then the obvious answer is why aren't you already there? It's because you only wanted the top job.
Now, assuming I'm wrong and Fozzie didn't want to bring him in, we return to my previous point, which is to fire the fluffybunnies at the boardroom.
However, I'm not prepared to blow Robertson when he could have been there right now trying to help this team get better.
Fuck that. Help the team through a rough patch and the fishheads would surely credit Foster and pat themselves on the back for reappointing the fat fluffy bunny. And if you don't manage to right the ship (because y'know you don't have head coach control) you risk being tarred with the Foster clown brush.
Robertson deserves to be head coach, if we lose this series the drum beats will be deafening.
Don't get me wrong, I'd sack foster and appoint Robertson with Jason Ryan, and let him choose his other assistants too.
However, I'm not going to 100% forgive him for not accepting an assistant's position in the past, either with Foster or Joseph.
If he'd have signed up with Joseph and Brown, I think they'd be the coaches right now.
I feel the same way about Joseph, to be honest.
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Back to basics first
Your captain has to be an automatic pick for a position.
You can't trust a back.
They have to have experience.
They must like to captain.
Do they command respect.
Our short term goal is the WC.That leaves Whitelock , am I missing something?
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@MrDenmore said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
What has Foster achieved? What players has he developed? What innovations has he introduced? He has done nothing but made excuses and wrecked the careers of several players.
I don’t buy the ‘we lack the cattle’ line. The NZ-born players in the Irish team were mostly journeymen before they migrated. Coaching and strategy and leadership make the difference.
NZ has none of that. In the meantime, Foster, with the support of an incompetent leadership at NZ rugby are trashing one of the world’s leading sports brands.
Travesty.
Meanwhile some complain that Robertson supposedly didn't want to work under him.
Fark off.
Foster is a reverse Midas, better to keep away from him and maintain your reputation.
I don't care if the problems are wider or deeper. Every journey starts with a first step and sending Foster out to pasture is a giant leap for AB-kind.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Our problem gents is
If you ever had to go through performance management of an employee you wanted to get rid of
Tonight we have
A terrible yellow card to a winger trying to charge a kick
A prop having an all time shit test
A prop getting red carded despite nearly knocking himself outThat geys very hard to say justified dismissal
What about
-players out of positionevery AB coach in the last 30 years has done that
-gamebreakers on benchsome definitely have been and others more positional options
-doesn't know sub rulesneither did the officials or senior players it seems
-doesn't proactively create new team strategies - I see you got some management speak in there with a useless adverb like “proactively”. You either do something or you don’t.
-doesn't use bench at right timego back through the annuls of TSF and you will find test matches where we have bemoaned bench use.
-relies on BB kicking at the wrong times and in the wrong places - BB’s kicking is definitely an issue
-loses to all sorts of records - legacy means something for sure
-has terrible winning record - haven’t seen the stats comparing his record to others. It can’t be good.
-name a player who has improved under his coaching (Bower? Not improved under Crusaders?)- what happens under the ABs can’t be looked at in isolation. That’s simply not how it works. People might bring up the Nonu example but he was still a damn good rugby player with the Canes, Blues, Landers and kept improving there.So a couple of sackable offences in there I guess 😉
proactively: (of a person or action) creating or controlling a situation rather than just responding to it after it has happened.
Not just management speak, Actual English language.
As to the rest, sure it has happened before.
But I wasn't responding to "what is unique here" but "That geys very hard to say justified dismissal"
let me put it another way for you, we are further from RWC winning potential than when we lost to England. We have stagnated.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kirwan 3 minutes and 25 seconds after Ofa’s. ABs win with 13 men.
Shame on you for that jinx.
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@mikedogz said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I learnt today that the TMO has an assistant TMO and they have 11 screens to look at. Club ref today said he got to sit in room.
Who monitors the performance of TMO, and what plays he chooses to highlight? This is becoming a game changing issue.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Regardless of any other sh*te, we have consistently struggled to get enough ball from the forwards after Richie departed.
The rest is just elastoplasts.Bollocks. It's all Foster's fault.
And he's fat.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I was surprised to see so many big-upping the team before kickoff, that should probably be mentioned.
However, in the aftermath of that result,I think I sum up the mood here by saying that we aren't surprised.
In a series like this, one of the best parts is that you see how coaching and preparation really play a part, and simply put the ABS were just tactially inept againt a team that came ready to shut down plays that had worked last week.
Our defense was just as porous as last week, while their's was much harder to breakdown. That's analysis, coaching, and player preparation. Which of those is the problem (likely all three) doesn't matter, as this series is showing that we don't have the right leadership to respond to challenges until they are presented to us.
In other words, no-one appears to have considered that Ireland would improve.
You look at individual skill errors, and you wonder how the ABs went from being the best skilled team in the world, to being very average - pretty much from the time we sent Mick away.
Can anyone define how the ABs play? I can't. We don't have a pattern, and certainly not one that endeavours our 'brand' to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
We'll win next week due to the immense pride bashing the players will be feeling, especially if that Irish fluffybunny called our skip a second-rate McCaw..
But, that could be the worst thing possible, as it will likely hide the rot at the heart of the current team. European clubs have better coaching teams than the ABs. Something is very very rotten with the entire set-up, and we should start by getting rid of the useless fluffybunnies in the boardroom who rubber-stamped the appointment of Foster, his re-appointment, and especially the appointment of his sub-standard assistants.
Post of the Year so far, for me.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
2020/2021/2022 Pfff.... I am numb. So we badly lost to Ireland in NZ. We lost to an underdone Argentinian side in Aussie. You accepted that. I give you guys a couple of days before this is swept under the carpet.
The carpet is getting a bit lumpy under there, but I was under no illusion that post 2019 RWC we were in for a roller coaster. It’s never great to see your team lose and lose pretty badly like we did tonight, but this is where we are at and from week to week we are going to see these fluctuations in performance. There’s a host of factors, I guess it comes down to whether we need a circuit breaker (or several) right now.
You are pretty much right. But if we accept fluctuations we have to look at the trajectory - and it ain't up. For me, we're just bumping along in a seemingly incoherent way
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Put that down to LF completely lost on defence
Knock on for scrum before was bogus. SB knew TMO could see that, but somehow the 11 screens didn't have the right angle?
Led directly to Porter try, instead of us being in hot pursuit. -
@junior said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Ofa is cooked but we can’t replace him
Ofa doing a great impression of Lauaki in 2008 tonight
His offside was purely technical as nowhere near the ball.
AS OPPOSED to forward who out hands on ball in ruck but deemed OK because they comply when ref calls for hands off.
Arguably ought still to be 10-7...
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@Victor-Meldrew The diagram on the right is a better illustration of what’s going on in Foster’s head and the lack of direction in the all blacks.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew The diagram on the right is a better illustration of what’s going on in Foster’s head and the lack of direction in the all blacks.
Maybe. I imagine inside his head is a diagram with lots of black lines staying in their own half.
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Been saying for a while and Its become pretty obvious that the ABs pack over the last 4 years have an issue with consistently producing quality performance week after week.
It’s only when they have been embarrassed that the produce a performance. Then settle back to mediocre standards.
What’s not clear is the reason why, but everyone one involved must accept responsibility. Maybe it really is just a case that we aren’t very good.
It’s pretty uncomfortable viewing seeing how well drilled this Ireland team is compared to the ABs. Huge gulf in how they are prepared in my view.
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@DaGrubster their running lines are so much more direct, at pace and at different angles. We are boring in comparison and bereft of ideas.
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Yup, it’s light years from what we are producing.
It’s impressive to watch and they are a truly modern rugby side. On the other hand the AB’s are still playing yesterdays game.
It struck me that watching the game today, it was a bit like watching klopp’s Liverpool run rings around Ole’s Man U.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
It’s only when they have been embarrassed that the produce a performance. Then settle back to mediocre standards.
In which case it can't be just the tactics, quality of players or skill levels - it seems to indicate a head-space or culture thing and/or performing under pressure.
Maybe Foster is acutely aware of this but just isn't able to change it. A big clear-out sometimes works but a bit tricky this side of the RWC and we don't have the depth of cattle instantly available. Dumping Foster isn't the answer on it's own either.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@mikedogz said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I learnt today that the TMO has an assistant TMO and they have 11 screens to look at. Club ref today said he got to sit in room.
Who monitors the performance of TMO, and what plays he chooses to highlight? This is becoming a game changing issue.
Foster references TMO telling ref of penalty in first lineout, not given, which led to first try. For instance.
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As an Allblacks supporter this is a mind fuck ,
I’ve been wanting to support this current coaching set up , just because I want the Allblacks to succeed not because I like or dislike any of them,
But I’m convinced now we need a reset from the top, and the only way that happens if we lose more games and I can’t bring myself to hope we lose .
If we win next week and we keep the bledisloe, foster survives imo even if the rugby is still shit . And we will meander down the same path towards the World Cup .
But can you imagine the backlash if we lose next week and then we fuck up the bledisloe? Nz will go into meltdown.
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Yes I agree, the holy grail of any professional - sport or otherwise is to consistently produce high quality work.
This was happening under Hansen, a couple of losses then were followed by very good performances.
NZR is not an elite high performance organisation which is being mirrored across most of their brands - ABs, black ferns, mens 7’s.
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@Victor-Meldrew Mostly disagree noting your disclaimer that he is not the only problem. Dumping him would be the smart thing to do though. We know he does not have the goods and the World Cup is pretty much a goner under his leadership. So what’s the purpose of holding on to him and the rest of the crew? Better to blood someone new with fresh eyes and see what can be done to salvage this mess.
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@kiwiinmelb yeah but what if we fluke a world cup...
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb yeah but what if we fluke a world cup...
That changes everything and it is still possible because we can still beat anyone on our day ,
but does anyone believe we are travelling down the best possible path to achieve that ?
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@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb yeah but what if we fluke a world cup...
Can't see that happening, you can't get lucky 7? games in a row vs quality sides. Wales just beat SA, so in reality this WC will be the most competitive. I hate to say it but Ireland, Wales, France, England and SA are all capable of beating us at the moment. For us to win the WC we need more than luck.
Hell even Aus and Argentina based in last night's performance could be an issue.
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@kiwiinmelb don’t think it is possible. Based on our recent hx we might win 2 then lose one which is Fosters percentage. I don’t think we can beat any team on our day let alone 3 good teams in a row.
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@kiwiinmelb I cannot see us winning next week bar us wetting all of our powder.
We are clueless, we still have no idea how to deal with the rush defence...we kick largely aimlessly, we attack the same channel again and again while thier defence simply presses up and smothers us over and over, until we drop the ball or kick the ball.
Some selection issues, I think largely the team is there and is good enough (but age is definitely a factor) the coaches seem to lack the ability to read the game and use subs accordingly.
Then there is the rules around accidental head contacts, I absolutely get the need to protect the head, but accidental head contacts do not warrant a red card, they should be for filth acts..
And then there is the ridiculous rule that saw Ardie go off too, I didn't know that one, but leaving that aside, what is the point of the rule? Why is he not even allowed to be subbed back later?
Sure the fact we are average as hell at present is a factor, but I really don't enjoy watching much rugby beyond club footy or Northland like i used to (although I have a love hate issue there too, but it is different...)
I actually am not that bothered we lost, we didnt deserve it, we simply have no idea at present, whereas years gone by I'd be pissed off.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew Mostly disagree noting your disclaimer that he is not the only problem. Dumping him would be the smart thing to do though. We know he does not have the goods and the World Cup is pretty much a goner under his leadership. So what’s the purpose of holding on to him and the rest of the crew? Better to blood someone new with fresh eyes and see what can be done to salvage this mess.
He may not be the biggest problem and, on it's own, getting rid of him might simply delay facing up to, or obscure, the real root cause of poor performance. Let's not simply shift deckchairs a la Titanic and avoid facing up to the real issues. Probably better to actually understand where and what the mess is before deciding on who should fix it. And no, that's not a Foster endorsement.
At times we play bloody well and the next week we are crap. One week our tactics are great, the next they aren't, one week Leicester is great, the next he isn't. It's simplistic to put all that down to one man.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb don’t think it is possible. Based on our recent hx we might win 2 then lose one which is Fosters percentage. I don’t think we can beat any team on our day let alone 3 good teams in a row.
I still think we can beat anyone on our day , we beat Ireland last week , we beat South Africa last year , maybe a question mark over France , but agree we can’t maintain a consistency to win 3 big games in successive weeks . I can’t see that happening right now for sure .
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb don’t think it is possible. Based on our recent hx we might win 2 then lose one which is Fosters percentage. I don’t think we can beat any team on our day let alone 3 good teams in a row.
I still think we can beat anyone on our day , we beat Ireland last week , we beat South Africa last year , maybe a question mark over France , but agree we can’t maintain a consistency to win 3 big games in successive weeks . I can’t see that happening right now for sure .
Four more years
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@kiwiinmelb don’t think it is possible. Based on our recent hx we might win 2 then lose one which is Fosters percentage. I don’t think we can beat any team on our day let alone 3 good teams in a row.
I still think we can beat anyone on our day , we beat Ireland last week , we beat South Africa last year , maybe a question mark over France , but agree we can’t maintain a consistency to win 3 big games in successive weeks . I can’t see that happening right now for sure .
Four more years
... unless the draw opens up for us. Miracles happen at world cups. 2007 SA got knockout games against Fiji Argentina England. I'd back us to win those.
And this is how far off the pace we are. Hoping for a good draw, rather than actually playing dominant rugby consistently. Going to be a long couple of years
