All Blacks XV 2022
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If the AB XV doesn't affect Levi Aumua's eligibility for Samoa/Fiji then what's the problem?
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@Stargazer there's nothing wrong with helping to develop an MP player. Or helping to develop someone playing for a Pacific nation. Potentially helping develop LA into a marquee player for MP is good for Super rugby, it gives the comp more credibility.
Also, if he goes really well then maybe a conversation with him about choosing NZ.
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I thought things along the same lines as @nepia given NZR funded the team last year, there would be a few with dual eligibility to try and improve the strength of MP without hindering players aspirations.
Obviously I was wrong.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks XV:
@Nepia Nope, it has been reported that there is an agreement not to pick ABs/Wallabies eligible players from MP. Obviously, it only applies to players who are actually eligible to play for the Pacific Islands, not players who are still in their stand-down period of 3 years if they are already NZ/OZ capped and want to change country, or players who can not qualify for the Islands, because they have no (grand)parents born in the Islands and can't meet the residency requirement either (like McClutchie).
So, in the case of Levi Aumua, it would be against the agreement to name him in the All Blacks XV, because he's under contract with MP for 2023.
By the way, it has also been reported that MP can sign up to 20% of players that are not eligible for the Islands, but despite that, there was some opposition when they signed McClutchie, because he's not Island eligible.
I'd love to know what is actually in players' contracts. Do they have to sign a clause in which they declare for their country of birth/heritage - if that's one of the PIs - for the duration of their contract? Or do they have to agree to a clause not to accept an invitation from the ABs for the duration of their contract (= not the same thing)? Or is this just an agreement between NZR, RA and the PI Unions?
This. It's a deal that NZR has signed as part of MP set up.
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I like what I have seen of Fabian Holland so far. He could be a bolter for the AB XV. Another Otago player who caught my eye is Henry Bell. He is dynamic in the loose and he can throw. Could we have both brothers selected ?
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@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
If it’s the same comment, the commentator was talking about both centres. Then said the ABs were interested in ‘him’ and that he narrowly missed out on the first squad of the year. It was confusing but I think the ‘him’ was Nankivell
I rewatched the game, or at least had it on in the background to listen to the commentary. It didn't take long. Three minutes and 50 seconds in during a stop in play for a scrum Wilson talks about Nankivell "one of those players getting consistent game time in 2022, has managed to stay healthy I touch wood on that because he has suffered a number injuries...this midfield combination of Nankivell and Aumua they can have an impact on the game..." Vision at this moment switches to Aumua. Wilson says "Look at this guy. Super rugby we saw he's some sort of player and there were whispers at the back end of Super Rugby that maybe he was in the All Black picture."
I stand by my interpretation that Wilson was talking about Aumua when it came to AB whispers. But I agree it's ambiguous so I am not insisting I am right. If anyone else can be bothered checking the replay (starts 3 mins 50 secs into the game) I would be interested in their opinion. I would have thought Aumua was miles away from selection, but I never watched him with my selector's hat on.
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I think they both lack some of the high end subtleties and skills needed for international level but show bursts of strong play at lower level. TUJ Procter and Sullivan seem to have a higher ceiling.
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@ARHS said in All Blacks XV:
I think they both lack some of the high end subtleties and skills needed for international level but show bursts of strong play at lower level. TUJ Procter and Sullivan seem to have a higher ceiling.
Not sure if you been watching NPC, but in the Waikato games I have seen it looks like poor old Sullivan's form has fallen off a cliff. On the weekend it seemed everything the poor bastard touched turn to shit. Hope he turns it around because he looked like he had a touch of class about him during the Super season.
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His form disappeared as soon as SR ended. He struggled a bit for the Maori too. It's the first season he's had with this volume of rugby. He'll probably come right next year
For the midfield I think we should be picking people who fit the same profile as the full AB side. So a 12 with a strong kicking game (like Havili/JB) and a centre with the pace of a winger
Guys like Sullivan and PUJ would've been interesting in the Ioane role.. but injuries and form have changed that
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@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
His form disappeared as soon as SR ended. He struggled a bit for the Maori too. It's the first season he's had with this volume of rugby. He'll probably come right next year
For the midfield I think we should be picking people who fit the same profile as the full AB side. So a 12 with a strong kicking game (like Havili/JB) and a centre with the pace of a winger
Guys like Sullivan and PUJ would've been interesting in the Ioane role.. but injuries and form have changed that
With Goodhue's injury concerns, I think a player who can play 12/13 relatively well (and cover wing) would be really nice to have in the team.
I would look at PUJ for that role (they may prefer Nankivell), and would want to see Tug in this team as well, if fit. Alongside them, Sullivan looks a good?
One tricky point could be that they may want to use these games to get a lot of games into RTS.
It will be interesting to see how they use the team.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks XV:
One tricky point could be that they may want to use these games to get a lot of games into RTS.
I assume that will happen and he'll be under instructions to use a variety of kicks
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Sullivan has been hot and cold for Waikato. His hands have let him down too often, but he has also played well in some games. Pacing himself for the playoffs like last year.
I think he should still make the AB XV, as at least he's fit.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
@gt12 said in All Blacks XV:
One tricky point could be that they may want to use these games to get a lot of games into RTS.
I assume that will happen and he'll be under instructions to use a variety of kicks
An RTS /PUJ midfield doesn't look terrible.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks XV:
@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
@gt12 said in All Blacks XV:
One tricky point could be that they may want to use these games to get a lot of games into RTS.
I assume that will happen and he'll be under instructions to use a variety of kicks
An RTS /PUJ midfield doesn't look terrible.
The right place to try it out
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@gt12 unless Goodhue can find a yard or 2 of pace, which is unlikely given his injury history, I think International rugby may have passed him by, which is a shame as he has a good rugby brain..
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TheMojomanreplied to taniwharugby on 26 Sept 2022, 00:15 last edited by TheMojoman 26 Sept 2022, 00:16
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks XV:
@gt12 unless Goodhue can find a yard or 2 of pace, which is unlikely given his injury history, I think International rugby may have passed him by, which is a shame as he has a good rugby brain..
Unfortunately for Goodhue, injury has wrecked his career. Now with Jordie a legit option at 12 he falls further behind. 12 is probably the most log-jammed of positions - Jordie, Havili, ALB, RTS, Tupaea, Goodhue, PUJ, TUJ, Nankivell in that order if all are injury free.
Goodhue seems to have gone down the size route, weighing in at 105KG at the moment. I don't think we'll see him getting any quicker or more agile given his knee injuries.
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nostrildamusreplied to Stargazer on 26 Sept 2022, 01:39 last edited by nostrildamus 26 Sept 2022, 01:39
@Stargazer said in All Blacks XV:
@Frye Why would NZR want to develop a coach at the highest level, who could then go on and coach for another country?
FIFY as an example of yes they could...
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@Crazy-Horse Agreed totally. Looked good in super. Not since
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nostrildamusreplied to TheMojoman on 26 Sept 2022, 04:36 last edited by nostrildamus 26 Sept 2022, 04:36
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks XV:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks XV:
@gt12 unless Goodhue can find a yard or 2 of pace, which is unlikely given his injury history, I think International rugby may have passed him by, which is a shame as he has a good rugby brain..
Unfortunately for Goodhue, injury has wrecked his career. Now with Jordie a legit option at 12 he falls further behind. 12 is probably the most log-jammed of positions - Jordie, Havili, ALB, RTS, Tupaea, Goodhue, PUJ, TUJ, Nankivell in that order if all are injury free.
Goodhue seems to have gone down the size route, weighing in at 105KG at the moment. I don't think we'll see him getting any quicker or more agile given his knee injuries.
You sure not TUJ in front of PUJ unless form fell off? Isn't PUJ more a 13?
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@nostrildamus he's playing 2nd 5 for Wellington. And has also for the canes
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV:
Wilson says "Look at this guy. Super rugby we saw he's some sort of player and there were whispers at the back end of Super Rugby that maybe he was in the All Black picture."
I stand by my interpretation that Wilson was talking about Aumua when it came to AB whispers. But I agree it's ambiguous so I am not insisting I am right.
Sounds like you might be right. In which case, it will be interesting to see what evolves with Levi.
Interestingly, he's eligible for all of NZ, Fiji and Samoa (according to Wiki).
I'd like to see how he would go for the AB XV -- he's something different to anything else we have at present.
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@Winger said in All Blacks XV:
@nostrildamus he's playing 2nd 5 for Wellington. And has also for the canes
ta. Just recall PUJ was 13 for ABs (?) and someone said he was better there than 12. I don't recall who said that though.
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So when is this and the EOYT squads named?
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Canes4lifereplied to nostrildamus on 26 Sept 2022, 07:54 last edited by Canes4life 26 Sept 2022, 07:56
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks XV:
@Winger said in All Blacks XV:
@nostrildamus he's playing 2nd 5 for Wellington. And has also for the canes
ta. Just recall PUJ was 13 for ABs (?) and someone said he was better there than 12. I don't recall who said that though.
I said it. He’s better in the 13 jersey and he’s played a lot more rugby there than at 12. He’s playing 12 for Wellington because he suits it more than Proctor. Now that Higgins played well at 12 on Saturday hopefully we get to see PUJ shift back out to his more favoured 13 jersey.
The positive with PUJ is that he can slot into both positions quite comfortably. Not every player can do that.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks XV:
So when is this and the EOYT squads named?
In about 2 weeks according to an article on allblacks.com. There is a camp in Nelson before the ABs leave for Japan.
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@TheMojoman said in All Blacks XV:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks XV:
@gt12 unless Goodhue can find a yard or 2 of pace, which is unlikely given his injury history, I think International rugby may have passed him by, which is a shame as he has a good rugby brain..
Unfortunately for Goodhue, injury has wrecked his career. Now with Jordie a legit option at 12 he falls further behind. 12 is probably the most log-jammed of positions - Jordie, Havili, ALB, RTS, Tupaea, Goodhue, PUJ, TUJ, Nankivell in that order if all are injury free.
Goodhue seems to have gone down the size route, weighing in at 105KG at the moment. I don't think we'll see him getting any quicker or more agile given his knee injuries.
Pfffft, Frans Steyn got fatter and fatter and still got picked for the Boks
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@ARHS said in All Blacks XV:
Procter
Is there another Procter running around NZ rugby that I haven't seen? Because that guy Billy is basic even at NPC.
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Just further on Procter. I was saying pretty much the same thing about his brother at the same stage of his career and he turned out to be excellent, then buggered off, so give it 3 or so years I guess...
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@Bones said in All Blacks XV:
Just further on Procter. I was saying pretty much the same thing about his brother at the same stage of his career and he turned out to be excellent, then buggered off, so give it 3 or so years I guess...
Like his brother he offered little on attack. Good defender though. Both were / are good defenders
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This tour could be great for providing game time for fringe ABs like RTS, Perofeta, Ross, Jacobson, Fakatava, and ALB.
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Foster did make this comment:
Because of their schedule and the need for them (All Blacks XV) to develop as a team, there would be minimal crossover between the sides.
Some of the players @Tim mentions would be better to play regularly for this team rather than only play once for the ABs against Japan.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks XV:
Foster did make this comment:
Because of their schedule and the need for them (All Blacks XV) to develop as a team, there would be minimal crossover between the sides.
Some of the players @Tim mentions would be better to play regularly for this team rather than only play once for the ABs against Japan.
I very much agree with that, put them in as leaders of the XV for game time. It's a risk, with injury, for the ABs, but better for player development. Not like this year another loss means anything major
I don't see it happening sadly, I think the best will go with the ABs, rest with XV
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So just Canada and BaaBaas locked in so far?
I'm excited to see the talent available get an opportunity. A great reward for those performers from the NPC but also genuine opportunity for those on the bubble of test selection.
I have no idea what the other 2 opponents will be made up from. Surely the Euro clubs would be extremely averse to releasing players at this time of year. A French Barbarian selection would be fantastic though if they could make it happen.
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@Frye said in All Blacks XV:
So just Canada and BaaBaas locked in so far?
Ireland have announced this
Ireland ‘A’ will take on an All Blacks XV at the RDS in Dublin on the evening of Friday, November 4.
I understand there is supposed to be one more fixture too.
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@Tim said in All Blacks XV:
This tour could be great for providing game time for fringe ABs like RTS, Perofeta, Ross, Jacobson, Fakatava, and ALB.
I see what you did there 😀
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks XV:
@Tim said in All Blacks XV:
This tour could be great for providing game time for fringe ABs like RTS, Perofeta, Ross, Jacobson, Fakatava, and ALB.
I see what you did there 😀
He did use a comma, so perhaps he meant all of the others were fringe and ALB was not?
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@canefan either way it doesn’t matter. ALB is a 50+ test AB and if he can run and play then he should be with the ABs. Other than injury he has been a mainstay in the 23 since 2016.
If R Ioane was coming back from injury I doubt they would be putting him in an B team for a run or to get match fit.
I’d put Fainga’anuku in the AB XV side and ALB straight back into the ABs.
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