Final: Blues vs Crusaders
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@Nepia said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Blues are still a good team
This is the key, although reading back through this thread you'd think this was the worst Blues side to ever lace up their boots.
A few posters were saving up their gripes from getting their asses handed to them from the Blues.
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@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@taniwharugby said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Jailbreak7 thing was, the Crusaders denied the blues any opportunity to show thier game plan.
It started with the lineout, Whitelock owned it, psyched out Eklund and the blues jumpers, allowing total domination, then everything flowed on from there.
It was a masterclass from the senior players in the saders and Razor, hopefully will give Fozzie some ideas cos the Blues looked overawed like the ABS were at times last year.
I thought the starting point was the rain.
My biggest concern was the Blues speed through the midfield - Ioane and Barrett aided by RTS and Perofeta. The rain shut down opportunities for slick handling to put these guys in any space and the smothering defence took care of the rest.
The lineout starving the Blues of possession and territory obviously a serious factor.
For us pretty much everyone played well or very well - I thought probably one exception who shall remain nameless.
Some of the wet weather handling was phenomenal, but even then we struggled getting the ball wide regularlyInteresting to hear Sam Whitelock giving the credit for the defensive lineout tactics to Strange and Grace.
You have to wonder whether Fozzie might have reconsidered his front row selections if he was picking his team tomorrow.
Pretty fair, and I sort of alluded to that as well. In dryer weather, our backs could build pressure to respond to any issues in the forwards. The last two games have blunted that with poor weather and needed to rely more on set piece.
An area to improve, and we’ve been seeing incremental improvements each year. Blues are still a good team, Crusaders were better on the night, and in those conditions.
Of course it bloody blue skys and lovely today. FFS.
Can you blame the weather though? Crusaders backs still seemed to be able to run and pass well in the same conditions
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@Nevorian said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@taniwharugby said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Jailbreak7 thing was, the Crusaders denied the blues any opportunity to show thier game plan.
It started with the lineout, Whitelock owned it, psyched out Eklund and the blues jumpers, allowing total domination, then everything flowed on from there.
It was a masterclass from the senior players in the saders and Razor, hopefully will give Fozzie some ideas cos the Blues looked overawed like the ABS were at times last year.
I thought the starting point was the rain.
My biggest concern was the Blues speed through the midfield - Ioane and Barrett aided by RTS and Perofeta. The rain shut down opportunities for slick handling to put these guys in any space and the smothering defence took care of the rest.
The lineout starving the Blues of possession and territory obviously a serious factor.
For us pretty much everyone played well or very well - I thought probably one exception who shall remain nameless.
Some of the wet weather handling was phenomenal, but even then we struggled getting the ball wide regularlyInteresting to hear Sam Whitelock giving the credit for the defensive lineout tactics to Strange and Grace.
You have to wonder whether Fozzie might have reconsidered his front row selections if he was picking his team tomorrow.
Pretty fair, and I sort of alluded to that as well. In dryer weather, our backs could build pressure to respond to any issues in the forwards. The last two games have blunted that with poor weather and needed to rely more on set piece.
An area to improve, and we’ve been seeing incremental improvements each year. Blues are still a good team, Crusaders were better on the night, and in those conditions.
Of course it bloody blue skys and lovely today. FFS.
Can you blame the weather though? Crusaders backs still seemed to be able to run and pass well in the same conditions
Front foot ball and a huge glut of possession makes a bit of difference.
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@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Nevorian said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@taniwharugby said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Jailbreak7 thing was, the Crusaders denied the blues any opportunity to show thier game plan.
It started with the lineout, Whitelock owned it, psyched out Eklund and the blues jumpers, allowing total domination, then everything flowed on from there.
It was a masterclass from the senior players in the saders and Razor, hopefully will give Fozzie some ideas cos the Blues looked overawed like the ABS were at times last year.
I thought the starting point was the rain.
My biggest concern was the Blues speed through the midfield - Ioane and Barrett aided by RTS and Perofeta. The rain shut down opportunities for slick handling to put these guys in any space and the smothering defence took care of the rest.
The lineout starving the Blues of possession and territory obviously a serious factor.
For us pretty much everyone played well or very well - I thought probably one exception who shall remain nameless.
Some of the wet weather handling was phenomenal, but even then we struggled getting the ball wide regularlyInteresting to hear Sam Whitelock giving the credit for the defensive lineout tactics to Strange and Grace.
You have to wonder whether Fozzie might have reconsidered his front row selections if he was picking his team tomorrow.
Pretty fair, and I sort of alluded to that as well. In dryer weather, our backs could build pressure to respond to any issues in the forwards. The last two games have blunted that with poor weather and needed to rely more on set piece.
An area to improve, and we’ve been seeing incremental improvements each year. Blues are still a good team, Crusaders were better on the night, and in those conditions.
Of course it bloody blue skys and lovely today. FFS.
Can you blame the weather though? Crusaders backs still seemed to be able to run and pass well in the same conditions
Front foot ball and a huge glut of possession makes a bit of difference.
I must admit that so called Perofeta knock on in one of the few moments they looked threatening was harsh
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@Nevorian Crusaders did it better - but, Will Jordan for example, was far less of an offensive threat than in dry weather. We were also regularly turning back infield rather than trying to use space wide, because it's too hard to get it there in the wet.
Crusaders had lots of ball, but when the Blues had the ball we were winning the collisions and knocking them backwards - forcing errors.
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@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
You have to wonder whether Fozzie might have reconsidered his front row selections if he was picking his team tomorrow.
That involves a) learning and b) admiting you got it wrong. Considering nothing of the sort was mentioned (for example) post lost to Arg, or just blame last year on the long season, I think there would be little change
To be fair - he's dropped Lomax and De Groot from last year's propping group.
We'll have to wait till the next waypoint - selecting the team for the Rugby championship - to see whether he's going to reconsider.
Well he had to drop some players from the mega squad of 2021, and even if DG was unfit, I'd rather have him in and working hard than Karl. Who is in the squad for his scrummaging? Showed it last night!
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@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Nepia said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Blues are still a good team
This is the key, although reading back through this thread you'd think this was the worst Blues side to ever lace up their boots.
A few posters were saving up their gripes from getting their asses handed to them from the Blues.
Are you having a crack at Chiefs supporters? I'd guess that most of us were on your side actually.
Pointing out the shite play from some your key players that Blues fans had been banging on about not being selected for the ABs was pretty fair comment and hardly sour grapes.
Chiefs forwards/Blues backs would have been awesome -
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Chris-B said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
You have to wonder whether Fozzie might have reconsidered his front row selections if he was picking his team tomorrow.
That involves a) learning and b) admiting you got it wrong. Considering nothing of the sort was mentioned (for example) post lost to Arg, or just blame last year on the long season, I think there would be little change
To be fair - he's dropped Lomax and De Groot from last year's propping group.
We'll have to wait till the next waypoint - selecting the team for the Rugby championship - to see whether he's going to reconsider.
Well he had to drop some players from the mega squad of 2021, and even if DG was unfit, I'd rather have him in and working hard than Karl. Who is in the squad for his scrummaging? Showed it last night!
There's probably more in the DeGroot message than we will be told I reckon. He was an AB last year. Did he piss someone off? Or maybe he was given an ultimatum earlier this season on some targets that he didn't meet.
Cant blame the selection team if a line gets drawn in the sand and a player doesnt hit targets. -
Stating the obvious but the final showed you can have all the strike power you want but if you can't get a platform from the tight five, it is pretty much useless. The game plan was old-school. Pinpoint a weakness (lineouts) and ruthlessly exploit it. Pinpoint strengths (collisions and scrum) and attack them. Take away the platform and the Blues weapons (loosies, backs) are nullified. Was a masterclass yet so simple. Just back to basics which the Crusaders do so well.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Stating the obvious but the final showed you can have all the strike power you want but if you can't get a platform from the tight five, it is pretty much useless.
Are you talking about the blues or the ABs?
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@Old-Samurai-Jack A bit reminiscent of quite a few Bledisloe tests - especially when the ABs are responding to a loss.
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@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
First off congratulations to the Crusaders, hell of a finals performance and very good coaching/tactics.
Basically came down to the line out, where were completely dominated. Game was lost there, Crusaders could kick everything out and keep the ball and starve us of possession.
Leon will learn from this, and I bet if he had his time again he would start Tucker instead of Robinson. The players really didn’t adjust on the field either, as has been mentioned already, where were the shortened lineouts or jumping at the front?
As the weather turned over the past 4/5 weeks you could see issues at the lineout in a few games. It’s an area we will need to improve a lot.
However, the Blues have been steadily improving each year, and with Patrick coming back next year we have more lineout options and bulk for the scrum.
For the positives, our defence was phenomenal. A real point of difference in previous years. Particularly good on the goal line and the team never gives up.
I see the trolls are out for Akira, again he was great for us, worked hard, moving bodies at the ruck and for those not paying attention to where the Blues put their six , staying in the team pattern. Robinson(at six) and Dalton both stay wide too.
Dalton is the best seven in the country by a mile, Sotutu the best 8, and Akira the best six. Without them, with losing that many lineouts, the Crusaders would put 40 on other teams. It’s a positive for the ABs that they were still so good with the front five being taken apart.
Anyway, was a fun year as a Blues fan, and looking forward to next year.
There’s nothing worse than having a different opinion on how someone played and being labelled a troll for it.
The rest of your post is grand.
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@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
First off congratulations to the Crusaders, hell of a finals performance and very good coaching/tactics.
Basically came down to the line out, where were completely dominated. Game was lost there, Crusaders could kick everything out and keep the ball and starve us of possession.
Leon will learn from this, and I bet if he had his time again he would start Tucker instead of Robinson. The players really didn’t adjust on the field either, as has been mentioned already, where were the shortened lineouts or jumping at the front?
As the weather turned over the past 4/5 weeks you could see issues at the lineout in a few games. It’s an area we will need to improve a lot.
However, the Blues have been steadily improving each year, and with Patrick coming back next year we have more lineout options and bulk for the scrum.
For the positives, our defence was phenomenal. A real point of difference in previous years. Particularly good on the goal line and the team never gives up.
I see the trolls are out for Akira, again he was great for us, worked hard, moving bodies at the ruck and for those not paying attention to where the Blues put their six , staying in the team pattern. Robinson(at six) and Dalton both stay wide too.
Dalton is the best seven in the country by a mile, Sotutu the best 8, and Akira the best six. Without them, with losing that many lineouts, the Crusaders would put 40 on other teams. It’s a positive for the ABs that they were still so good with the front five being taken apart.
Anyway, was a fun year as a Blues fan, and looking forward to next year.
There’s nothing worse than having a different opinion on how someone played and being labelled a troll for it.
The rest of your post is grand.
Thing with Akira is that despite the good stats he doesn't appear to being adding value at the right place at the right time. Maybe he's doing a Rueben Thorne or something but he seems to disappear for long stretches (which probably causes the negative comments).
Maybe I don't watch him close enough but those stats almost always surprise me. -
@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
First off congratulations to the Crusaders, hell of a finals performance and very good coaching/tactics.
Basically came down to the line out, where were completely dominated. Game was lost there, Crusaders could kick everything out and keep the ball and starve us of possession.
Leon will learn from this, and I bet if he had his time again he would start Tucker instead of Robinson. The players really didn’t adjust on the field either, as has been mentioned already, where were the shortened lineouts or jumping at the front?
As the weather turned over the past 4/5 weeks you could see issues at the lineout in a few games. It’s an area we will need to improve a lot.
However, the Blues have been steadily improving each year, and with Patrick coming back next year we have more lineout options and bulk for the scrum.
For the positives, our defence was phenomenal. A real point of difference in previous years. Particularly good on the goal line and the team never gives up.
I see the trolls are out for Akira, again he was great for us, worked hard, moving bodies at the ruck and for those not paying attention to where the Blues put their six , staying in the team pattern. Robinson(at six) and Dalton both stay wide too.
Dalton is the best seven in the country by a mile, Sotutu the best 8, and Akira the best six. Without them, with losing that many lineouts, the Crusaders would put 40 on other teams. It’s a positive for the ABs that they were still so good with the front five being taken apart.
Anyway, was a fun year as a Blues fan, and looking forward to next year.
There’s nothing worse than having a different opinion on how someone played and being labelled a troll for it.
The rest of your post is grand.
Thing with Akira is that despite the good stats he doesn't appear to being adding value at the right place at the right time. Maybe he's doing a Rueben Thorne or something but he seems to disappear for long stretches (which probably causes the negative comments).
Maybe I don't watch him close enough but those stats almost always surprise me.I usually like akira. I’m certainly not in the anti-akira brigade. Just don’t think he stood out in the first half of the final and that for me is a little worrying. If that makes me a troll so be it.
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@Billy-Tell I don't think Kirwan's comment was aimed at you.
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@Tim said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell I don't think Kirwan's comment was aimed at you.
No, I thought it was pretty obvious who I meant.
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@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Billy-Tell said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
First off congratulations to the Crusaders, hell of a finals performance and very good coaching/tactics.
Basically came down to the line out, where were completely dominated. Game was lost there, Crusaders could kick everything out and keep the ball and starve us of possession.
Leon will learn from this, and I bet if he had his time again he would start Tucker instead of Robinson. The players really didn’t adjust on the field either, as has been mentioned already, where were the shortened lineouts or jumping at the front?
As the weather turned over the past 4/5 weeks you could see issues at the lineout in a few games. It’s an area we will need to improve a lot.
However, the Blues have been steadily improving each year, and with Patrick coming back next year we have more lineout options and bulk for the scrum.
For the positives, our defence was phenomenal. A real point of difference in previous years. Particularly good on the goal line and the team never gives up.
I see the trolls are out for Akira, again he was great for us, worked hard, moving bodies at the ruck and for those not paying attention to where the Blues put their six , staying in the team pattern. Robinson(at six) and Dalton both stay wide too.
Dalton is the best seven in the country by a mile, Sotutu the best 8, and Akira the best six. Without them, with losing that many lineouts, the Crusaders would put 40 on other teams. It’s a positive for the ABs that they were still so good with the front five being taken apart.
Anyway, was a fun year as a Blues fan, and looking forward to next year.
There’s nothing worse than having a different opinion on how someone played and being labelled a troll for it.
The rest of your post is grand.
Thing with Akira is that despite the good stats he doesn't appear to being adding value at the right place at the right time. Maybe he's doing a Rueben Thorne or something but he seems to disappear for long stretches (which probably causes the negative comments).
Maybe I don't watch him close enough but those stats almost always surprise me.I usually like akira. I’m certainly not in the anti-akira brigade. Just don’t think he stood out in the first half of the final and that for me is a little worrying. If that makes me a troll so be it.
I don't think he stood out in the first half too. But, he was clearly playing to Rangi's plan of him hugging or one in from the touchline. Which meant he wasn't making lots of tackles (I would guess the bulk of his tackles would have been late first and second half) and due to the uselessness of the Blues to retain possession he wasn't getting the opportunity to run wide either.
Late in the first half he moved in closer and his tackling and running increased by proximity.
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@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@taniwharugby said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Bovidae it was the perfect storm, some of Eklunds throws were poor, some was timing, some was lifters...once Whitelock was in the blues head, they couldn't seem to change it.
Although like you say, they shoulda stayed at front and won a few to just try to build some phases and hold the ball.
When Ofa came on to replace Laulala you could see Laulala having a frustrated moan about something to him. Whether it had to do with the line out I don’t know but it seemed so.
Communication breakdowns between jumpers and lifters?
I’m no lineout expert but I was surprised that the Blues did little to disrupt the Saders contesting. There were no shuffles and attempts to throw to the unexpected spot. They just kept trying the same 3 or 5 plays and getting picked off. Where was the leadership there? I thought Robinson would have stepped up.Another thing I noticed was the relatively small gap at the line out pretty much all night. Part of the reason why the Saders' jumpers were able to steal the pill is because they didn't have to jump or reach across at all to do so. Someone in the Blues line out very early on should have got their line to step out and increase the gap or bring it to BOK's attention and get him to increase the gap. But that was symptomatic of the Blues' problems all night - they were spectators for so much of it, simply watching the Saders do as they pleased without being proactive about doing anything about it
