Final: Blues vs Crusaders
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I watched last night with a lot of family here, so will enjoy watching again, to see how good or bad the Blues pack were. I really thought the bath Crudadres gave them in lineout seemed to be start and almost the main cause of their problems, I can't recall such a lesson for quite sometime.
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Yeah I’m not sure who starts between beaudy and Richie . I don’t have a preference tbh .
But I do think we have to be careful thinking all our answers to selections were in that game when the similar issues keep arising at test level with both of them
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@taniwharugby said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Jailbreak7 thing was, the Crusaders denied the blues any opportunity to show thier game plan.
It couldn't help thinking that the Blues backs might have enjoyed playing behind the Chiefs forwards a week earlier.
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@Bovidae it was the perfect storm, some of Eklunds throws were poor, some was timing, some was lifters...once Whitelock was in the blues head, they couldn't seem to change it.
Although like you say, they shoulda stayed at front and won a few to just try to build some phases and hold the ball.
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@taniwharugby said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Bovidae it was the perfect storm, some of Eklunds throws were poor, some was timing, some was lifters...once Whitelock was in the blues head, they couldn't seem to change it.
Although like you say, they shoulda stayed at front and won a few to just try to build some phases and hold the ball.
When Ofa came on to replace Laulala you could see Laulala having a frustrated moan about something to him. Whether it had to do with the line out I don’t know but it seemed so.
Communication breakdowns between jumpers and lifters?
I’m no lineout expert but I was surprised that the Blues did little to disrupt the Saders contesting. There were no shuffles and attempts to throw to the unexpected spot. They just kept trying the same 3 or 5 plays and getting picked off. Where was the leadership there? I thought Robinson would have stepped up. -
@junior said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stag said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Hopefully all the crap floating around about Barrett just walking into the number 10 jersey for the first test against Ireland has been flushed down the dunny
Problem is both Mounga and Barrett are flash players, with no disrespect. Give them a platform and they will tear you apart. Beaudy tears the hardest but kicks shit, Mounga kicks better but is a liability on defence. We don't have a ten in the ABs (NZ?) that can tactically take control in the traditional way, with their kicking and intelligence like DC used to. Or most NH tens are focused on. They can pile on the points when we're dominant up front, and often pull some blinders out of nowhere even when pressured. But can mounga or Beaudy take control when on the back foot? Nope.
Most teams need to win upfront, with our tens ABs are much more susceptable to shitting the bed if the forward don't provide the ball needed. I'd still take Beaudy over mounga, cos he has a higher ceiling, but the ABs need a 10 (or a nine) that can act as a tactical general, rather than flash awesome individual> this is especially relelvant with our tight forwards being handed their arses every time we play a big NH team. But we don;t have the forwards and we don't have the tens. And playing off nine is verbotten since Lions 1, so no idea what fozzies genius plan is to get around thisYep, that match told us absolutely nothing about the 10s that we didn't already know. RM is a god at Super level and a magician when he gets an armchair ride from his pack. BB is shit, runs sideways and shovels terrible passes when he doesn't get an armchair ride.
The only potentially relevant outcome of that match so far as the AB 10 is concerned, is that RM may get first dibs at shitting the bed against the Irish (or conversely dominating if the AB pack gets the ascendancy).
Totally agree and it is one of our problems at test level when our forwards can’t dominate. We have two brilliantly skilfull 10s that are ineffective when the heat comes on.
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@Crucial he like many of the blues were deers in headlights, they were in hole and unable to get out, big game experience won through
Didn't have a backup plan, unable to get any rhythm in thier own game, well unable to just play any rugby to put any pressure on the Crusaders.
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@KiwiMurph said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@kev said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stag said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Hopefully all the crap floating around about Barrett just walking into the number 10 jersey for the first test against Ireland has been flushed down the dunny
Problem is both Mounga and Barrett are flash players, with no disrespect. Give them a platform and they will tear you apart. Beaudy tears the hardest but kicks shit, Mounga kicks better but is a liability on defence. We don't have a ten in the ABs (NZ?) that can tactically take control in the traditional way, with their kicking and intelligence like DC used to. Or most NH tens are focused on. They can pile on the points when we're dominant up front, and often pull some blinders out of nowhere even when pressured. But can mounga or Beaudy take control when on the back foot? Nope.
Most teams need to win upfront, with our tens ABs are much more susceptable to shitting the bed if the forward don't provide the ball needed. I'd still take Beaudy over mounga, cos he has a higher ceiling, but the ABs need a 10 (or a nine) that can act as a tactical general, rather than flash awesome individual> this is especially relelvant with our tight forwards being handed their arses every time we play a big NH team. But we don;t have the forwards and we don't have the tens. And playing off nine is verbotten since Lions 1, so no idea what fozzies genius plan is to get around thisMounga’s kicking game was superb tonight. BB was crap this week and last week. Hands down Mounga starts.
BB is much better off the bench as a super sub.
It's so much easier to kick well tactically when you get forwards handing it to you on a silver platter. And not under any real pressure. So I disagree
Beaudy is not a particularly good punter though. He never has been.
His whole kicking game from hand (apart from the odd kick pass) is terrible. He hasn’t improved much over time either. His touch finders last night were rubbish. Gaining bout 20m max. Arrogance to not hand the kicking to Perofeta.
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First off congratulations to the Crusaders, hell of a finals performance and very good coaching/tactics.
Basically came down to the line out, where were completely dominated. Game was lost there, Crusaders could kick everything out and keep the ball and starve us of possession.
Leon will learn from this, and I bet if he had his time again he would start Tucker instead of Robinson. The players really didn’t adjust on the field either, as has been mentioned already, where were the shortened lineouts or jumping at the front?
As the weather turned over the past 4/5 weeks you could see issues at the lineout in a few games. It’s an area we will need to improve a lot.
However, the Blues have been steadily improving each year, and with Patrick coming back next year we have more lineout options and bulk for the scrum.
For the positives, our defence was phenomenal. A real point of difference in previous years. Particularly good on the goal line and the team never gives up.
I see the trolls are out for Akira, again he was great for us, worked hard, moving bodies at the ruck and for those not paying attention to where the Blues put their six , staying in the team pattern. Robinson(at six) and Dalton both stay wide too.
Dalton is the best seven in the country by a mile, Sotutu the best 8, and Akira the best six. Without them, with losing that many lineouts, the Crusaders would put 40 on other teams. It’s a positive for the ABs that they were still so good with the front five being taken apart.
Anyway, was a fun year as a Blues fan, and looking forward to next year.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@No-Quarter said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
I don't think Mo'unga really took control of that game, despite the front foot ball and wealth of possession handed to him. What I do remember is all of the Saders backs kicking for the corner and playing the territory game - Jordan, Havili, even Reece put one over the touchline in the Blues 22. The best part of that performance from the Saders was that the whole team was on the same page and trying to execute the same gameplan, rather than Mo'unga taking control of the game himself - he's just not that kind of 10. Neither is Beauden. I don't think that game would have changed much in the selectors eyes, particularly for the first test where I'd say there would be concerns about Mo'unga's defense being exposed by the big Irish loosies running through his channel.
I'd be extremely surpsied if it wasn't Beauden 10 with Mo'unga on the bench to start with, that is what they favoured last season as well.
I’m not advocating for Richie to start ahead of Barrett in the first test, I still think it should be Beaudie, but you could see tonight Richie’s organisation of our attack line. From the vision on the TV at least you could see him communicating and he varied the point of attack quite a bit. His kicking was good but I think his passing was better. He drew in attention from more than one defender which helped his team mates. I thought he played a pretty mature game tonight.
His defence was pretty good tonight, didn’t miss a tackle from the stats I saw. That’s a plus!!
Mo'unga played well for sure, and I'd love to see him play like that for the ABs. But the armchair ride he got from his tight 5 is a far cry from anything he'll get against Ireland and SA. Which is why I say that game didn't really tell us anything we didn't already know. Beauden can handle the physical exchanges a lot better, him starting and then bringing Mo'unga off the bench against a tiring and less structured defense is the best use of their talents.
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@Kirwan said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
For the positives, our defence was phenomenal. A real point of difference in previous years.
I think you will find that the stats over the past few years have had them at or near the top of the standings in tackle %s and line breaks conceded.
Saders knew as much and went out to stop the Blues getting anything going rather than have to score themselves -
@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@KiwiMurph said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@kev said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stag said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Hopefully all the crap floating around about Barrett just walking into the number 10 jersey for the first test against Ireland has been flushed down the dunny
Problem is both Mounga and Barrett are flash players, with no disrespect. Give them a platform and they will tear you apart. Beaudy tears the hardest but kicks shit, Mounga kicks better but is a liability on defence. We don't have a ten in the ABs (NZ?) that can tactically take control in the traditional way, with their kicking and intelligence like DC used to. Or most NH tens are focused on. They can pile on the points when we're dominant up front, and often pull some blinders out of nowhere even when pressured. But can mounga or Beaudy take control when on the back foot? Nope.
Most teams need to win upfront, with our tens ABs are much more susceptable to shitting the bed if the forward don't provide the ball needed. I'd still take Beaudy over mounga, cos he has a higher ceiling, but the ABs need a 10 (or a nine) that can act as a tactical general, rather than flash awesome individual> this is especially relelvant with our tight forwards being handed their arses every time we play a big NH team. But we don;t have the forwards and we don't have the tens. And playing off nine is verbotten since Lions 1, so no idea what fozzies genius plan is to get around thisMounga’s kicking game was superb tonight. BB was crap this week and last week. Hands down Mounga starts.
BB is much better off the bench as a super sub.
It's so much easier to kick well tactically when you get forwards handing it to you on a silver platter. And not under any real pressure. So I disagree
Beaudy is not a particularly good punter though. He never has been.
His whole kicking game from hand (apart from the odd kick pass) is terrible. He hasn’t improved much over time either. His touch finders last night were rubbish. Gaining bout 20m max. Arrogance to not hand the kicking to Perofeta.
I don't remember many touchfinders from Beauden at all last night, most of the poor kicking came from Christie box kicking it into touch for about a 5m gain.
My biggest criticism of Beauden last night was that he didn't demand the ball from Christie when it was clear Christie was having a shocker. If DC had a 9 inside him playing like that he would have demanded the ball every time so that he could make the decisions instead - that's what we really lack from both our 10s right now, when shit is hitting the fan neither of them take control of the situation.
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@No-Quarter said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@KiwiMurph said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@kev said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stag said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Hopefully all the crap floating around about Barrett just walking into the number 10 jersey for the first test against Ireland has been flushed down the dunny
Problem is both Mounga and Barrett are flash players, with no disrespect. Give them a platform and they will tear you apart. Beaudy tears the hardest but kicks shit, Mounga kicks better but is a liability on defence. We don't have a ten in the ABs (NZ?) that can tactically take control in the traditional way, with their kicking and intelligence like DC used to. Or most NH tens are focused on. They can pile on the points when we're dominant up front, and often pull some blinders out of nowhere even when pressured. But can mounga or Beaudy take control when on the back foot? Nope.
Most teams need to win upfront, with our tens ABs are much more susceptable to shitting the bed if the forward don't provide the ball needed. I'd still take Beaudy over mounga, cos he has a higher ceiling, but the ABs need a 10 (or a nine) that can act as a tactical general, rather than flash awesome individual> this is especially relelvant with our tight forwards being handed their arses every time we play a big NH team. But we don;t have the forwards and we don't have the tens. And playing off nine is verbotten since Lions 1, so no idea what fozzies genius plan is to get around thisMounga’s kicking game was superb tonight. BB was crap this week and last week. Hands down Mounga starts.
BB is much better off the bench as a super sub.
It's so much easier to kick well tactically when you get forwards handing it to you on a silver platter. And not under any real pressure. So I disagree
Beaudy is not a particularly good punter though. He never has been.
His whole kicking game from hand (apart from the odd kick pass) is terrible. He hasn’t improved much over time either. His touch finders last night were rubbish. Gaining bout 20m max. Arrogance to not hand the kicking to Perofeta.
I don't remember many touchfinders from Beauden at all last night, most of the poor kicking came from Christie box kicking it into touch for about a 5m gain.
My biggest criticism of Beauden last night was that he didn't demand the ball from Christie when it was clear Christie was having a shocker. If DC had a 9 inside him playing like that he would have demanded the ball every time so that he could make the decisions instead - that's what we really lack from both our 10s right now, when shit is hitting the fan neither of them take control of the situation.
BB is a shocking captain was my take. They needed someone to pull the heads around from being 'deer in the headlights' and re-focus
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As much as any team doesn't want to rely on one player, the Blues are a different side without Dalton, last week they were exposed, and maybe that started sowing the seeds of doubt, when he came on, it was too late, but you could see the lift in the team.
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@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@No-Quarter said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@KiwiMurph said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@kev said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stag said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Hopefully all the crap floating around about Barrett just walking into the number 10 jersey for the first test against Ireland has been flushed down the dunny
Problem is both Mounga and Barrett are flash players, with no disrespect. Give them a platform and they will tear you apart. Beaudy tears the hardest but kicks shit, Mounga kicks better but is a liability on defence. We don't have a ten in the ABs (NZ?) that can tactically take control in the traditional way, with their kicking and intelligence like DC used to. Or most NH tens are focused on. They can pile on the points when we're dominant up front, and often pull some blinders out of nowhere even when pressured. But can mounga or Beaudy take control when on the back foot? Nope.
Most teams need to win upfront, with our tens ABs are much more susceptable to shitting the bed if the forward don't provide the ball needed. I'd still take Beaudy over mounga, cos he has a higher ceiling, but the ABs need a 10 (or a nine) that can act as a tactical general, rather than flash awesome individual> this is especially relelvant with our tight forwards being handed their arses every time we play a big NH team. But we don;t have the forwards and we don't have the tens. And playing off nine is verbotten since Lions 1, so no idea what fozzies genius plan is to get around thisMounga’s kicking game was superb tonight. BB was crap this week and last week. Hands down Mounga starts.
BB is much better off the bench as a super sub.
It's so much easier to kick well tactically when you get forwards handing it to you on a silver platter. And not under any real pressure. So I disagree
Beaudy is not a particularly good punter though. He never has been.
His whole kicking game from hand (apart from the odd kick pass) is terrible. He hasn’t improved much over time either. His touch finders last night were rubbish. Gaining bout 20m max. Arrogance to not hand the kicking to Perofeta.
I don't remember many touchfinders from Beauden at all last night, most of the poor kicking came from Christie box kicking it into touch for about a 5m gain.
My biggest criticism of Beauden last night was that he didn't demand the ball from Christie when it was clear Christie was having a shocker. If DC had a 9 inside him playing like that he would have demanded the ball every time so that he could make the decisions instead - that's what we really lack from both our 10s right now, when shit is hitting the fan neither of them take control of the situation.
BB is a shocking captain was my take. They needed someone to pull the heads around from being 'deer in the headlights' and re-focus
Probably why a back shouldn't be captain, as it was the lineout that desperately needed fixing which is not Beaudens area at all.
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@No-Quarter said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@No-Quarter said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Crucial said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@KiwiMurph said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@kev said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Machpants said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Stag said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
Hopefully all the crap floating around about Barrett just walking into the number 10 jersey for the first test against Ireland has been flushed down the dunny
Problem is both Mounga and Barrett are flash players, with no disrespect. Give them a platform and they will tear you apart. Beaudy tears the hardest but kicks shit, Mounga kicks better but is a liability on defence. We don't have a ten in the ABs (NZ?) that can tactically take control in the traditional way, with their kicking and intelligence like DC used to. Or most NH tens are focused on. They can pile on the points when we're dominant up front, and often pull some blinders out of nowhere even when pressured. But can mounga or Beaudy take control when on the back foot? Nope.
Most teams need to win upfront, with our tens ABs are much more susceptable to shitting the bed if the forward don't provide the ball needed. I'd still take Beaudy over mounga, cos he has a higher ceiling, but the ABs need a 10 (or a nine) that can act as a tactical general, rather than flash awesome individual> this is especially relelvant with our tight forwards being handed their arses every time we play a big NH team. But we don;t have the forwards and we don't have the tens. And playing off nine is verbotten since Lions 1, so no idea what fozzies genius plan is to get around thisMounga’s kicking game was superb tonight. BB was crap this week and last week. Hands down Mounga starts.
BB is much better off the bench as a super sub.
It's so much easier to kick well tactically when you get forwards handing it to you on a silver platter. And not under any real pressure. So I disagree
Beaudy is not a particularly good punter though. He never has been.
His whole kicking game from hand (apart from the odd kick pass) is terrible. He hasn’t improved much over time either. His touch finders last night were rubbish. Gaining bout 20m max. Arrogance to not hand the kicking to Perofeta.
I don't remember many touchfinders from Beauden at all last night, most of the poor kicking came from Christie box kicking it into touch for about a 5m gain.
My biggest criticism of Beauden last night was that he didn't demand the ball from Christie when it was clear Christie was having a shocker. If DC had a 9 inside him playing like that he would have demanded the ball every time so that he could make the decisions instead - that's what we really lack from both our 10s right now, when shit is hitting the fan neither of them take control of the situation.
BB is a shocking captain was my take. They needed someone to pull the heads around from being 'deer in the headlights' and re-focus
Probably why a back shouldn't be captain, as it was the lineout that desperately needed fixing which is not Beaudens area at all.
I don’t mean technically I mean mentally.
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Blues defence was very good. They scramble well and hit low. That was expected given the two best defensive teams in the comp played last night.
What surprised me was the way the Blues attacked. Their ball runners didn’t draw in enough red shirts and I thought they died with the ball too easily. The Saders fanned very quickly setting up the wall. Conditions were tough but a short passing or even offload game would’ve created a few more problems for our defence. This was particularly noticeable in the second half where the Blues had a lot more possession and territory than the first.
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The conditions nullified the Blues attacking potency; quick stepping and fleet footed. What cost the Blues was a lack of territory and possession due to the lineout.
Quite frankly I'm surprised they were in the fight on the scoreboard for so long, which says a lot about the attacking potency of the Crusaders and the Blues defence.
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@taniwharugby said in Final: Blues vs Crusaders:
@Jailbreak7 thing was, the Crusaders denied the blues any opportunity to show thier game plan.
It started with the lineout, Whitelock owned it, psyched out Eklund and the blues jumpers, allowing total domination, then everything flowed on from there.
It was a masterclass from the senior players in the saders and Razor, hopefully will give Fozzie some ideas cos the Blues looked overawed like the ABS were at times last year.
I thought the starting point was the rain.
My biggest concern was the Blues speed through the midfield - Ioane and Barrett aided by RTS and Perofeta. The rain shut down opportunities for slick handling to put these guys in any space and the smothering defence took care of the rest.
The lineout starving the Blues of possession and territory obviously a serious factor.
For us pretty much everyone played well or very well - I thought probably one exception who shall remain nameless.
Some of the wet weather handling was phenomenal, but even then we struggled getting the ball wide regularlyInteresting to hear Sam Whitelock giving the credit for the defensive lineout tactics to Strange and Grace.
You have to wonder whether Fozzie might have reconsidered his front row selections if he was picking his team tomorrow.
