How many Crusaders in your AB 23?
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@FakatavaFuture said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@nzzp i know right.. I wouldn't include Alb in a match day 23 til northern tour at the earliest
thinking more towards the world cup
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@sparky said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@Chester-Draws Picking a captain who isn't the best player available in their position is a luxury the All Blacks can't afford given the competitive nature of contemporary test Rugby and the likely competitive nature of this series. A captain has to earn their place same as anyone else. Right now, Papalii is clearly the best NZ 7. Leadership in Rugby is about a leadership group rather than one individual these days anyway.
Absolute Bollocks!
Dropping Cane like that would signal to everyone that Foster has no idea what is going on. That he doesn't even know his captain. That he's changing everything from last year - all on the hope that Papalii is the answer. Foster would look a complete tool if that turned out to not be true. But Cane would have signed overseas at that point (who would stay for a coach who did that to you?) and we'd be royally screwed.
Picking your captain is not a "luxury" it's an outright necessity. Spare me the bit about "leadership group" because we clearly do not have a functioning one. Unless our headless chicken act towards the end of games is deliberate, that is.
I'm happy for Papalii to be given a run at 6. But then that position has been a problem for a while. It's not about him, as such.
Still, at least you have him in the squad, unlike @kiwi_expat.
Mod Edit: Was the insult really needed?
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@Chester-Draws how would handle a captain having a drop in form? From your two posts, it sounds like they can't be dropped.
This is how we ended up with years of a sub-par Read as captain.
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@Kirwan Not really an issue at the moment, because Cane's form isn't bad.
If the Captain struggles for a whole season, then he needs to be told by the coach that he's going to drop him waaaay ahead of time over the off season. So he can retire, get an "injury" etc. Anyone who makes it to permanent AB captain loses form only slowly, unless badly injured, so if the coach wants to do it, they don't have to ambush them.
If Cane doesn't play well this NZ winter, then he can be dropped after that. Doing it now would be idiotic.
Also, it isn't exactly new that AB captains are not dropped. Sean Fitzpatrick being a far worse case than Read. Coaches know that dropping their captain mid-season, without excellent reason, is going to create an absolute firestorm from the captains' supporters and in the media.
It would create quite an epic meltdown on the Fern about Foster. I almost hope it happens now. But it won't.
Edit: Yes, mod, the insult was really needed. Seriously, who doesn't even pick our captain and one of our most reliable players over the last few years in the squad? To be replaced by a unknown quantity, out of position! He was just being a ...
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@Chester-Draws said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@Kirwan Not really an issue at the moment, because Cane's form isn't bad.
If the Captain struggles for a whole season, then he needs to be told by the coach that he's going to drop him waaaay ahead of time over the off season. So he can retire, get an "injury" etc. Anyone who makes it to permanent AB captain loses form only slowly, unless badly injured, so if the coach wants to do it, they don't have to ambush them.
If Cane doesn't play well this NZ winter, then he can be dropped after that. Doing it now would be idiotic.
Also, it isn't exactly new that AB captains are not dropped. Sean Fitzpatrick being a far worse case than Read. Coaches know that dropping their captain mid-season, without excellent reason, is going to create an absolute firestorm from the captains' supporters and in the media.
It would create quite an epic meltdown on the Fern about Foster. I almost hope it happens now. But it won't.
Fair points.
Foster picking Cane as captain the first place was the problem, seeing as he is injury prone and in a very competitive position. It's pushed Savea to 8, and may end up pushing the form 7 to 6.
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@Kirwan If Foster wanted to drop Cane, then over the summer was when it needed to happen.
But given that we don't have a really locked in 6 or 8, is going and messing with 7 on top of that really that good an idea?
Foster gets given all sorts of stick for not finding and staying with a midfield. But apparently different rules apply at loose forward? There chopping and changing every season is good, apparently.
Also, who gets to be captain, in his absence? Whitelock risks having the same issue of needing to be replaced. So Ardie? Really?
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this is a public perception problem more than anything
So, to take your point further, who are the players everyone agrees should start?
A Smith and R Ioane (somewhere)
Other than that you will find a difference of opinion on every single other playersWe want one of those guys as skipper?
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@mariner4life if only Retallick hadn't buggered off to Japan.
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@mariner4life would add Will Jordan to those few names that the majority would probably agree should be locked on starters, Jordan 17 tries in what 13 games?
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@FakatavaFuture said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@mariner4life would add Will Jordan to those few names that the majority would probably agree should be locked on starters, Jordan 17 tries in what 13 games?
good point, i think he is pretty close to a consensus pick at 14 or 15
Again, not a captaincy option
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@mariner4life just let Aaron or Whitelock captain the team that way Dalton has a earnest shot of wearing 7 in big test matches
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@FakatavaFuture said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@mariner4life just let Aaron or Whitelock captain the team that way Dalton has a earnest shot of wearing 7 in big test matches
Richie became captain at 24 didn't he? Dalton is almost 25, might as well appoint him now as it's only a matter of time..
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@kiwi_expat said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
Alex Hodgman, Samsoni Taukei'aho, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Brodie Rettalick, Sam Whitelock, Tupou Vaa'i, Dalton Papali'i, Akira Ioane (better suited at 8), Aaron Smith, Beauden Barrett, Caleb Clarke, Thomas Umaga-Jenson, Reiko Ioane, Will Jordan, Jordie Barrett.
Ethan DeGroot, Asafo Aumua, Tyrel Lomax, Josh Lord, Ardie Savea, Folau Fakatava, Richie Mo'unga, Anton Lienert-Brown.
Can someone (other than those that wear black and white hooped eyepatches) tell me what this fulla has done to get so much attention? I’d have the Ranga and even a currently out of form Perenara ahead of anything I’ve seen from him in super rugby.
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@ACT-Crusader ranga yes, TJ nooooo
He looked bloody good before injury, very similar to how ranga is now but more abrasive with the running game.
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@ACT-Crusader It will be a good chance to watch him closely this weekend. Without Smith in the 23 he should get plenty of minutes marking the experienced Nic White..
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@FakatavaFuture said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
@mariner4life just let Aaron or Whitelock captain the team that way Dalton has a earnest shot of wearing 7 in big test matches
It's getting hard to know if people are just taking the Mickey now.
Aaron "after david" Smith as captain is not even a good joke. What a media storm that would set off!
And Whitelock would set up the same problem as he is getting no younger. (Assuming he takes it -- people have been known to refuse honours if they think it is at the expense of a mate.) So then you'd end up keeping an ailing Whitelock in the team rather than look like a tool that just can't pick a captain.
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@Chester-Draws said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
What a media storm that would set off!
Who really cares about the media, should have zero factoring in any selection decisions.
If the ABS can get back to winning (to the point the media think it is boring) the mostly compliant fan boy media would get back in thier boxes quick enough anyway.
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@Chester-Draws bloody people eh! Who do they think they are?
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@ploughboy said in How many Crusaders in your AB 23?:
i thought cane got the better of paps in both blues/chiefs games
1-1 for me
Cane edged the first one with his turnovers. Papali'i edged the second. They both played well in those matches.
I don't think there is an issue with Canes form
