All Blacks 2022
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
i always feel he chops and changes combos (especially loosies and midfield) too often...
ALB was pretty much nailed on at 13 and Havili at 12. Foster changed that combination when he wanted to give Reiko game time at 13.
Havili was really good to start, but then turned to custard. It's a pity - can see a role for him as a playmaking 12, but you couldn't be confident he'll get there based on teh second half of 22
I suspect Foster will give him a run at 12 to see how he goes and has developed off-season. Will be interesting to see who's picked at 12 if DH can't cut the custard.
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@nepia said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial i dont really rate foster but thats a good call
Foster hasn't won me over either but some of the stuff on here verges on stupid.
I would hope that with the amount of talking we have had about this, the level rises a bit higher than that of a blowhard at the pub espousing their great knowledge to those assembled around the leaner.
Yeah, I can be as negative as any on here, especially when deserved (Hammettuer, Canes treatment of Magpies), but even I can't handle AB discussions on the Fern much these days due to the constant negativity.
I'm no fan of Foster, would rather Rennie, Robertson, anyone else really, but I don't think NZ rugby is in the doldrums as much as it's constantly made out here. The NH have turned into unstoppable beasts, winning against Oz no longer counts, winning against the Boks barely counts, all our players are too small (except Akira, he's too fat) ... we may as well all give up and support soccer.
But the reality is that every few years we come up against a style of play that flummoxes us for a while (it happened before both our RWC wins in the 2000s) but eventually we figure it out (and then eventually we overthink in it like against England in the RWC - but we're still a few steps away from that).
I have to agree. The current skill we need to work out how to counter is the skill of the French / Irish back row in isolating players and getting turnovers. Both games against us & also throughout the 6N, they had the ability to get the ball off the opposition when under pressure. Time and time again a player would find themselves isolated for only a second but it was enough for the turnover to be completed.
Needs to be a lot of care taken when making choices around pick and go, taking the ball into contact etc. It's better to kick ahead, have a go at a percentage play than take the ball into contact without the support around you to ensure the recycled ball. As these two teams turn it over every single time.
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@nepia said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial i dont really rate foster but thats a good call
Foster hasn't won me over either but some of the stuff on here verges on stupid.
I would hope that with the amount of talking we have had about this, the level rises a bit higher than that of a blowhard at the pub espousing their great knowledge to those assembled around the leaner.
Yeah, I can be as negative as any on here, especially when deserved (Hammettuer, Canes treatment of Magpies), but even I can't handle AB discussions on the Fern much these days due to the constant negativity.
I'm no fan of Foster, would rather Rennie, Robertson, anyone else really, but I don't think NZ rugby is in the doldrums as much as it's constantly made out here. The NH have turned into unstoppable beasts, winning against Oz no longer counts, winning against the Boks barely counts, all our players are too small (except Akira, he's too fat) ... we may as well all give up and support soccer.
But the reality is that every few years we come up against a style of play that flummoxes us for a while (it happened before both our RWC wins in the 2000s) but eventually we figure it out (and then eventually we overthink in it like against England in the RWC - but we're still a few steps away from that).
I haven't seen our game progress at all since Foster took over as head coach.
Our structures around the breakdown, ball carrier, set-piece & attack are a real concern... We play a very high tempo but boring brand of attacking rugby & rely too much on individual brilliance to get us out of trouble, but that doesn't work against high quality international sides.
Stale thinking and a reliance on established norms saw Foster appointed, Ireland will already understand the gameplan, (or lack thereof), that the All Blacks will implement. I wish them all the luck, it will consign Foster to the bin more quickly and hopefully welcome a Razor/Rangi combo a lot sooner.
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@kiwi_expat cool. Yeah go Ireland eh! Fuck the ABs, lose you bastards!
Very cool.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
I haven't seen our game progress at all since Foster took over as head coach.
You can't have been looking very carefully since our game hasn't progressed since 2016 - 3 years before Foster took over.
Stale thinking and a reliance on established norms saw Foster appointed, Ireland will already understand the gameplan, (or lack thereof),
Ireland have worked out a gameplan that doesn't exist? Impressive by Farrell.
I wish them all the luck, it will consign Foster to the bin more quickly and hopefully welcome a Razor/Rangi combo a lot sooner.
Ah, you want the AB's to lose and will happily cheer the opposition? Sez it all really...
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@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2022:
@tim said in All Blacks 2022:
O’Keeffe, who handled Six Nations matches and games on the British & Irish Lions tour of South Africa, said it was “no surprise” the All Blacks had been beaten as their opponents generated quicker ball from the breakdowns.
Yet another indicator of the irrelevance of Super Rugby for test rugby.
It's ridiculous that our Super Rugby teams & ABs don't seem to want to do the bloody basics of getting good numbers to their ball carriers to clean out opposition players at the breakdown with urgency/aggression... so hardly surprising we get so much slow ball, if that shite doesn't change we will keep on struggling.
I think there is many a coach that will dispel your theory on that in the modern game. They will have plenty of analysis around speed of ball vs attacking numbers elsewhere ie not much use having fast ball to then have your outsides outnumbered and potentially isolated without enough support.
The key is not for numbers but for efficiency.@ARHS I take your point but my call isn't for harder hits it is for more dynamic intent. There's a difference in my mind. Players like Ardie and Samisoni don't die easily with the ball. Players like Moody and Bridge do.
Players like Vai'i take the ball forward by running onto it at angles, players like the aging version of Whitelock take it statically and make a metre.
Some harsh and generalised examples on players there but they are meant to be illustrative not absolute.
It's difficult to find those players though. The likes of Blackadder bring plenty of dynamics but it has to be effective as well. Then players like Akira bring amazing dynamics but tend to switch it on and off.
It's easy to say what would work, Harder to find/develop the resources.It's not about attacking numbers, it's about having good numbers to clean well so you can protect your ball & get fast recycled stuff, also the other side would have less time to organized their defence, from fast recycled ball the forwards need to go through a lot of phases to make the opposition tackle a lot, then fed your backs at the right time when they tire a bit, Ireland & France executed these things very well, we were very poor at it, so got beaten badly by both of them.
When defences have plenty of time & are really smothering you it's a waste of time players running off each other on different angles etc as they're playing well behind the advantage line, all the defence have to do then is move up in a straight line & you're going nowhere with ball in-hand, only option from there is a smart kicking game.One thing you notice watching Ireland is that there is ALWAYS support a metre or two from carrier just waiting to slam in and clean.
ABs last year seemed to get away from their cleaners. Almost as if there was no plan?
Exactly... whereas we tend to see too many of our forwards fanning out wide on our own ball, instead they should be getting more numbers to clean & protect our possession, it's unbelievably poor by our blokes.
Funny because France do the opposite. Low numbers attending the breakdown.
As @pakman says, it is about having a supporting runner (or two) nearby for a quick clean and recycle. Nothing to do with more numbers.This is my idea of efficient support/cleaning:
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks 2022:
I haven't seen our game progress at all since Foster took over as head coach.
You can't have been looking very carefully since our game hasn't progressed since 2016 - 3 years before Foster took over.
Stale thinking and a reliance on established norms saw Foster appointed, Ireland will already understand the gameplan, (or lack thereof),
Ireland have worked out a gameplan that doesn't exist? Impressive by Farrell.
I wish them all the luck, it will consign Foster to the bin more quickly and hopefully welcome a Razor/Rangi combo a lot sooner.
Ah, you want the AB's to lose and will happily cheer the opposition? Sez it all really...
I think Victor, kiwi_expat is exactly the type of person that Kieran Crowley was talking about when he was spoke of arrogant kiwi supporters. One who believes that if someone beats the ABs it is because ABs are poor, not because teams like France and Ireland have very very good teams. And to be honest his name speaks of someone who probably is not an AB supporter, merely someone who lives in another country , and maybe even the type who could even post in different rugby sites under different names??
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@pakman and yet that was done without huge bashers. It was a connected and skilled team.
It is a bit of an unfair example really as it was peak performance but yes, it is a good example of not just 'getting more numbers' to the breakdown which meant that successive breakdowns had the support they needed. -
@dan54 All Blacks have been poor, especially since 2020. Ireland are a better team. There is no negativity in that statement, it is what it is. Wouldn't an arrogant NZ supporter believe we will win in June? I just can't believe the articles in NZ surprised that Six Nations is faster and more physical than Super rugby etc, etc. NZ supporters do kind of live in a bubble if they think the ABs are still a world force. They potentially can be of course but.....some deep thinking and changes are needed.
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i think the teams that have improved have done so because they have a clear game plan and normally one based on the type of players, simple. I feel our game plan is either unclear....or its not right for the type of players we pick..or its right for the backs but not the forward or visa versa
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2022:
I think Victor, kiwi_expat is exactly the type of person that Kieran Crowley was talking about when he was spoke of arrogant kiwi supporters. One who believes that if someone beats the ABs it is because ABs are poor, not because teams like France and Ireland have very very good teams.
Those things don't have to be mutually exclusive. To me the ABs were poor. The game plan was easily read and nullified by the opposition for the majority of the game. Skills execution under pressure were poor, as was the decision making.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks 2022:
@crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
The search for a 6 that compliments Ardie at 8 continues.
Christ. Surely Fozzie can coach Akira to say something nice about how tall Ardie is looking?!!
Typical south islander, put all the blame on Akira instead of the Tongan thug from your invitational XV.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks 2022:
@nepia I'm blaming Fozzie!
Notable that Toddy's nicely-brought-up and polite son, got the inside running late in the season.
"Woah, shiny boots, Ardie!"
- Ethan Blackadder.
Did he get injured against Ireland as he didn't play against the best team of the tour? (Which in hindsight was a good game to miss).
Nice deflection away from your imported Ta$man thug though.
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@nepia He's an import and hasn't spent enough time within our borders for the good influence to soak right through.
You would have thought Mitch Hunt's goodness would have radiated far enough to keep Shannon under control, but apparently not.
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