Depth at 10
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@nzzp said in Depth at 10:
@kirwan said in Depth at 10:
@duluth said in Depth at 10:
@booboo said in Depth at 10:
Like the idea of Sullivan what little I've seen.
I like him at fullback. Safe under the high ball, picks when to join the line well & he has a massive boot to punish poor kicks. He looks very comfortable there
Also I see MacDonald mentioned three other players at 10 today (Barrett, Plummer, Perofeta)
I think Sullivan will remain the starting fullback and they won't move himYep, he's like a mixture of Carter and Dagg at fullback (not saying he's as good as Carter, just is the player he reminds me of most). Has a huge boot.
Didn't hurt Carter to start outside 10, either. Get a chance to see high quality 10 in action, but without the pressure of having to drive the team yourself.
RM did teh same, and it's benefitted him.
i use to use that example and talked up Josh Ioane at 12 as a way to get him to the next level....and then we tried it and bit us in the arse
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@kiwiwomble said in Depth at 10:
@nzzp said in Depth at 10:
@kirwan said in Depth at 10:
@duluth said in Depth at 10:
@booboo said in Depth at 10:
Like the idea of Sullivan what little I've seen.
I like him at fullback. Safe under the high ball, picks when to join the line well & he has a massive boot to punish poor kicks. He looks very comfortable there
Also I see MacDonald mentioned three other players at 10 today (Barrett, Plummer, Perofeta)
I think Sullivan will remain the starting fullback and they won't move himYep, he's like a mixture of Carter and Dagg at fullback (not saying he's as good as Carter, just is the player he reminds me of most). Has a huge boot.
Didn't hurt Carter to start outside 10, either. Get a chance to see high quality 10 in action, but without the pressure of having to drive the team yourself.
RM did teh same, and it's benefitted him.
i use to use that example and talked up Josh Ioane at 12 as a way to get him to the next level....and then we tried it and bit us in the arse
yeah. Tough eh, but there is a track record of it succeeding.
Also, if you can play 12 it's good learning to play defensively at 10. BB used to be an absolute turnstile at the top level; he's really picked up his game in that area. not even talked about any more.
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@nzzp said in Depth at 10:
@kiwiwomble said in Depth at 10:
@nzzp said in Depth at 10:
@kirwan said in Depth at 10:
@duluth said in Depth at 10:
@booboo said in Depth at 10:
Like the idea of Sullivan what little I've seen.
I like him at fullback. Safe under the high ball, picks when to join the line well & he has a massive boot to punish poor kicks. He looks very comfortable there
Also I see MacDonald mentioned three other players at 10 today (Barrett, Plummer, Perofeta)
I think Sullivan will remain the starting fullback and they won't move himYep, he's like a mixture of Carter and Dagg at fullback (not saying he's as good as Carter, just is the player he reminds me of most). Has a huge boot.
Didn't hurt Carter to start outside 10, either. Get a chance to see high quality 10 in action, but without the pressure of having to drive the team yourself.
RM did teh same, and it's benefitted him.
i use to use that example and talked up Josh Ioane at 12 as a way to get him to the next level....and then we tried it and bit us in the arse
yeah. Tough eh, but there is a track record of it succeeding.
Also, if you can play 12 it's good learning to play defensively at 10. BB used to be an absolute turnstile at the top level; he's really picked up his game in that area. not even talked about any more.
you're right, i thin it says more about Josh or at least where he was headspace wise last year, its one of the problems with these relatively short super seasons, you just dont have the time to try stuff out, lose 2 or 3 and your on the ropes
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@duluth said in Depth at 10:
@booboo said in Depth at 10:
Like the idea of Sullivan what little I've seen.
I like him at fullback. Safe under the high ball, picks when to join the line well & he has a massive boot to punish poor kicks. He looks very comfortable there
Also I see MacDonald mentioned three other players at 10 today (Barrett, Plummer, Perofeta)
I think Sullivan will remain the starting fullback and they won't move himI agree that they will use him where he fits best in their team but long term I would love to see what he could do at 10. His boot seems not only big (if that was a criteria Stevenson would be a star) but accurate AND he seemingly has that elusive quality of time with the ball to make the right decisions. All attributes needed at 10 and all things that our current 10s don't have.
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god you just have to look at the names on the Super Rugby squads at 10 to see just what the issue is.
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@booboo said in Depth at 10:
Bergus Furke (for the life of me I can't say it the right way around) was backup 10 for Saders last year.
Is there any potential there? Did he play NPC (I saw f-all)?
Bit of talk around McClutchie. Anyone who isn't @Stargazer got an opinion on his future?
Also previous age group hype around Rivez Reihana. What's the story with him?
Like the idea of Sullivan what little I've seen.
While I think he's been undeservedly left out of NZ Super teams for a few years now I don't think he's close to AB ceiling. If you want someone from the Bay as AB 10 then Sullivan is the guy.
On McClutchie, the Crusaders were apparently keen on him but he'd already signed with MP, it would have been interesting to see him surrounded by those top calibre players, instead he's going to have to shoulder a lot of weight in a thrown together new team.
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@mariner4life said in Depth at 10:
god you just have to look at the names on the Super Rugby squads at 10 to see just what the issue is.
It's pretty sparse. The more talented U20 players often get shoved around to fullback, 12 etc. for half their career. I fully expect this to happen with Zarn Sullivan - it will be decided he isn't enough of an attacking threat to play fullback for the ABs, but he's not experienced enough at 10. And there will be no consistent plan to actually develop him there
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@cgrant said in Depth at 10:
Richie Mo'unga would be OK if the AB forwards put him on the front foot. This was not the case against France, with the notable exception of a 20 min period.
McClutchie was the standout 10 in the NPC. But his size could be a problem at the highest level.I don't think we can take that as a given. Opposition with forward based games see to that and their backs have learned skills to keep the ball away from our forwards without kicking it back to us.
We need a 10 that can manipulate the opposition into providing opportunities even if or forwards aren't dominant because a lot of the time even good forwards will only get parity.
Picking a 10 based on the work of 9 other players being good is crazy. -
If only Grant Fox was involved.
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@antipodean get Beaver in there!!
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If we look at the U20s 1st 5s in recent years we have had:
2021 - Aidan Morgan, Ruben Love, Harry Godfrey
2020 - Zarn Sullivan, Stu Cruden, Rivez Reihana, Aidan Morgan, Ruben Love (training squad only)
2019 - Fergus Burke, Rivez Reihana, (Kaleb Trask)The majority of these players aren't yet regular starters at SR level or playing at 1st 5 if they are.
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@bovidae said in Depth at 10:
If we look at the U20s 1st 5s in recent years we have had:
2021 - Aidan Morgan, Ruben Love, Harry Godfrey
2020 - Zarn Sullivan, Stu Cruden, Rivez Reihana, Aidan Morgan, Ruben Love (training squad only)
2019 - Fergus Burke, Rivez Reihana, (Kaleb Trask)The majority of these players aren't yet regular starters at SR level or playing at 1st 5 if they are.
Got the info on the years before that?
2018 - Plummer & Trask?
2017 - Perofeta? -
@bovidae said in Depth at 10:
If we look at the U20s 1st 5s in recent years we have had:
2021 - Aidan Morgan, Ruben Love, Harry Godfrey
2020 - Zarn Sullivan, Stu Cruden, Rivez Reihana, Aidan Morgan, Ruben Love (training squad only)
2019 - Fergus Burke, Rivez Reihana, (Kaleb Trask)The majority of these players aren't yet regular starters at SR level or playing at 1st 5 if they are.
i guess the next question is how many are starting at 10 in NPC
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@frank said in Depth at 10:
Zarn Sullivan is the obvious guy to try.
Problems
-he won't get game time there because of BB playing for Auckland
-he is being used at fullback
-Fozzie is way too conservative to think outside the box and pick himI think this is getting a bit silly. Sullivan hasn't even had a single start as a ten at NPC level
He's unlikely to get a run at ten because he's been very good for the Blues at fullback. MacDoanld (a decent fullback himself), has raved about Sullivans natural lines from fullback. Maybe his best position is actually fullback?
Maybe he becomes a ten, maybe he doesn't. But the rating he is getting in thread based on almost no adult rugby in the position is over the top
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@duluth said in Depth at 10:
@frank said in Depth at 10:
Zarn Sullivan is the obvious guy to try.
Problems
-he won't get game time there because of BB playing for Auckland
-he is being used at fullback
-Fozzie is way too conservative to think outside the box and pick himI think this is getting a bit silly. Sullivan hasn't even had a single start as a ten at NPC level
He's unlikely to get a run at ten because he's been very good for the Blues at fullback. MacDoanld (a decent fullback himself), has raved about Sullivans natural lines from fullback. Maybe his best position is actually fullback?
Maybe he becomes a ten, maybe he doesn't. But the rating he is getting in thread based on almost no adult rugby in the position is over the top
I agree, it's much too early to talk about him in terms of the AB 10 jersey. But you can understand why someone ends up there. Mo'unga and Barrett have been found wanting in tough games - (admittedly in a team which has been tactically outcoached - I'd be interested to see if other top coaches could make something out of them), and no new 10s have been selected for Super Rugby save Aidan Morgan. We're looking for a saviour that won't come.
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@duluth said in Depth at 10:
@frank said in Depth at 10:
Zarn Sullivan is the obvious guy to try.
Problems
-he won't get game time there because of BB playing for Auckland
-he is being used at fullback
-Fozzie is way too conservative to think outside the box and pick himI think this is getting a bit silly. Sullivan hasn't even had a single start as a ten at NPC level
He's unlikely to get a run at ten because he's been very good for the Blues at fullback. MacDoanld (a decent fullback himself), has raved about Sullivans natural lines from fullback. Maybe his best position is actually fullback?
Maybe he becomes a ten, maybe he doesn't. But the rating he is getting in thread based on almost no adult rugby in the position is over the top
definately
What i do hope however is some of the young guys look at this tour and think "i can do better than that" and set out to prove and and earn a shot at the AB's
I dont think many from the current squad deserve reputation/potential protection like we've seen for AB's of the past
