All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
How did we go from Cruden, Carter, Slade, Sopoaga to this? Really?
Two players that hardly set the world on fire
Slade was fine, a classical 10 that I'd argue steers the team better than RM or BB.
Sopoaga I rated, but he disappeared before he really got a chance to show his wares. He was a stretch.
Shall we take Donald instead then?
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
How did we go from Cruden, Carter, Slade, Sopoaga to this? Really?
Two players that hardly set the world on fire
Slade was fine, a classical 10 that I'd argue steers the team better than RM or BB.
Sopoaga I rated, but he disappeared before he really got a chance to show his wares. He was a stretch.
Shall we take Donald instead then?
I'm going to argue that we need to bring back the
JuniorAll Black 15 and have them play a certain number of tests every year against middle-ranked opposition (Japan, Georgia, Canada, PIs) to give our younger players an environment to move through towards the ABs.I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think we'd be OK with Joane or even Cameron (I can't believe I'm writing that, but there you go) there if we had a set of forwards that was playing with a plan that wasn't 10 years old and Aaron Smith in the 9 jersey.
I think we have to confront the issue that we get piss-all out of our props and Retallick is a mile away from his best, plus Taylor can be dynamic but generally isn't (we don't get Crusader Taylor often enough).
Until we sort out that issue in the starting 15 and off the bench, none of this matters. We do need more size in the backline but that can be achieved by introducing some big bodies (Leicester, Clarke). The issue right now is that other teams are getting far more out their front five and we have to focus there.
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Somehow I missed this page posted in the match thread:
Reece will really struggle to hold his place this week given his tackling and turnovers. It really showed all of his weaknesses and why he is a stopgap option. I love that he gets involved, but last week showed how Rocks and Diamonds he can be.
Zero metres from Laulala. I'm so fucking sick of that, pus two penalties, and 73$¥% tackling. He might actually have to get dropped completely.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Razor can’t be held responsible for the idiot that stuffs his game up when he is not under Razor.
Not sure what this has to do with George Bridge....
Bridge plays ok under Razor so same story.
But that only holds true if Test rugby isn't step-up from Super Rugby, doesn't it?
What ?
Lots of players look good in Super Rugby and struggle up a level in Test rugby.
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@gt12 I don’t get too into the game stats from all the different sites, but can you explain the turnovers conceded stat and what defines that? I noticed in those stats that Rieko Ioane had 1 against him, but I’m pretty sure he threw the ball away once and then he made that forward pass to his bro in that disallowed try. Which one was the TO conceded?
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 I don’t get too into the game stats from all the different sites, but can you explain the turnovers conceded stat and what defines that? I noticed in those stats that Rieko Ioane had 1 against him, but I’m pretty sure he threw the ball away once and then he made that forward pass to his bro in that disallowed try. Which one was the TO conceded?
He had two handling errors too, so all up three turnovers by our usual stats.
That makes Reece look even worse btw (assuming one doesn't subsume the other) with 3TCs and 4 handling errors.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 I don’t get too into the game stats from all the different sites, but can you explain the turnovers conceded stat and what defines that? I noticed in those stats that Rieko Ioane had 1 against him, but I’m pretty sure he threw the ball away once and then he made that forward pass to his bro in that disallowed try. Which one was the TO conceded?
He had two handling errors too, so all up three turnovers by our usual stats.
That makes Reece look even worse btw (assuming one doesn't subsume the other) with 3TCs and 4 handling errors.
Foster had a point about the backs having a stinker then
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When ABs lost to Ireland in 2016, they laid down a marker in the reverse fixture in Dublin. It was brutal. It was at times desperate (and with Fekitoa it stepped over a line), but the challenge was laid down to Ireland that the ABs weren't their bunnies.
Against France, all AB players need to show an appetite for the physical side. The French need to be put off their game just like Ireland put NZ off theirs. If NZ allow France to play, the French will play. I think the Irish played one of their finest games. They'd have stuffed most teams based on that performance. AB players are playing for their futures over next 2 years in this game.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Shall we take Donald instead then?
France this weekend isn't a big enough occasion for The Duck.
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I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And what you may get under Foster is a confused team with no game plan, and a lack of confidence that stumbles to another loss under Foster.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
How did we go from Cruden, Carter, Slade, Sopoaga to this? Really?
Two players that hardly set the world on fire
Sopoaga was pretty handy on debut against the bokke in south africa
I have to look at several people at the seem to get endless chances in AB squads and the others that were cut adrift and how much better some of them might have been if given as many chances as others
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And I can also see that happening, but just like a cricketer on the verge of being dropped, a one effort big knock will paper over the cracks for a while longer.
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And what you may get under Foster is a confused team with no game plan, and a lack of confidence that stumbles to another loss under Foster.
Well, as long as players like Havili, Mounga & Reece can do the basic things right - sadly lacking last week - we should be OK.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And what you may get under Foster is a confused team with no game plan, and a lack of confidence that stumbles to another loss under Foster.
Well, as long as players like Havili, Mounga & Reece can do the basic things right - sadly lacking last week - we should be OK.
Then we need Savea ,Retallick, Llaula,Reiko to lift their games and not miss tackles and throw the ball over the sideline and not drop the ball.
There were mistakes from nearly everyone including BB who missed 3 tackles in the 20minutes he was on.
But I am sure your fantastic coach will come up with a game plan to beat the French ,I jut hope it’s not the one we had against Ireland,or SA or England or Argentina we live in hope haha. -
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And what you may get under Foster is a confused team with no game plan, and a lack of confidence that stumbles to another loss under Foster.
Well, as long as players like Havili, Mounga & Reece can do the basic things right - sadly lacking last week - we should be OK.
Then we need Savea ,Retallick, Llaula,Reiko to lift their games and not miss tackles and throw the ball over the sideline and not drop the ball.
There were mistakes from nearly everyone including BB who missed 3 tackles in the 20minutes he was on.
But I am sure your fantastic coach will come up with a game plan to beat the French ,I jut hope it’s not the one we had against Ireland,or SA or England or Argentina we live in hope haha.How is it Foster's fault that players are missing tackles exactly? He can prepare them how best he can, but if they can't execute the basics there's not much he can do.
ABs, even though put under severe pressure had 4 really good try scoring opportunities in that game (Barrett chance at beginning, Taylor try, Jordan try, Ioane non-try), and a couple of clear breaks that may have resulted in more with better decision making. ABs took 2 of those chances, and Ireland were lucky not to get a YC after the Ioane non-try for POM cynically killing the ball right on the try line.
For a side so under the pump, that's not a bad thing to realise. Opportunities are being created at least. It would be even more worrying if ABs were creating nothing. It means teams have to raise their levels of intensity to extremes to stop the ABs from having enough opportunities. That means the ABs now have to meet that challenge and raise their own game to match or better that intensity. It is this challenge that drives the standards of the game on to greater heights.
Final thought - Ireland were annihilated by NZ 2 years ago at the WC, 46-14, and never looked like winning. NZ were annihilated 29-20 according to reports, yet had a chance to win late in the game. I've seen ABs teams under McCaw take similar beatings against SA but end up winning. Nobody saw issues with the gameplan or players then, even though the pack were getting dealt to at times.
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Then we need Savea ,Retallick, Llaula,Reiko to lift their games and not miss tackles and throw the ball over the sideline and not drop the ball.
There were mistakes from nearly everyone including BB who missed 3 tackles in the 20minutes he was on.But remember these guys haven't benefited from the Crusaders environment, or Robertson's coaching, so we shouldn't we cut them some slack....?
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@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And what you may get under Foster is a confused team with no game plan, and a lack of confidence that stumbles to another loss under Foster.
Well, as long as players like Havili, Mounga & Reece can do the basic things right - sadly lacking last week - we should be OK.
Then we need Savea ,Retallick, Llaula,Reiko to lift their games and not miss tackles and throw the ball over the sideline and not drop the ball.
There were mistakes from nearly everyone including BB who missed 3 tackles in the 20minutes he was on.
But I am sure your fantastic coach will come up with a game plan to beat the French ,I jut hope it’s not the one we had against Ireland,or SA or England or Argentina we live in hope haha.How is it Foster's fault that players are missing tackles exactly? He can prepare them how best he can, but if they can't execute the basics there's not much he can do.
ABs, even though put under severe pressure had 4 really good try scoring opportunities in that game (Barrett chance at beginning, Taylor try, Jordan try, Ioane non-try), and a couple of clear breaks that may have resulted in more with better decision making. ABs took 2 of those chances, and Ireland were lucky not to get a YC after the Ioane non-try for POM cynically killing the ball right on the try line.
For a side so under the pump, that's not a bad thing to realise. Opportunities are being created at least. It would be even more worrying if ABs were creating nothing. It means teams have to raise their levels of intensity to extremes to stop the ABs from having enough opportunities. That means the ABs now have to meet that challenge and raise their own game to match or better that intensity. It is this challenge that drives the standards of the game on to greater heights.
Final thought - Ireland were annihilated by NZ 2 years ago at the WC, 46-14, and never looked like winning. NZ were annihilated 29-20 according to reports, yet had a chance to win late in the game. I've seen ABs teams under McCaw take similar beatings against SA but end up winning. Nobody saw issues with the gameplan or players then, even though the pack were getting dealt to at times.
Maybe its because Foster is in control of the environment has a bad coaching record,And there seems as a lot of people including 3 Ab,s on Breakdown mentioned no game plan nothing has changed to combat these teams like Ireland ,SA, England etc.
the coach sets the tone for performance that's why he is there fix the problems Foster don't just point fingers at the players all the time.Thats great for the players confidence its bad coaching and it will get worse as Foster tries to hold on to his Job.
He is Head Coach if he is not responsible for a teams performance what is he there for.
