All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@gt12 I don’t get too into the game stats from all the different sites, but can you explain the turnovers conceded stat and what defines that? I noticed in those stats that Rieko Ioane had 1 against him, but I’m pretty sure he threw the ball away once and then he made that forward pass to his bro in that disallowed try. Which one was the TO conceded?
He had two handling errors too, so all up three turnovers by our usual stats.
That makes Reece look even worse btw (assuming one doesn't subsume the other) with 3TCs and 4 handling errors.
Foster had a point about the backs having a stinker then
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When ABs lost to Ireland in 2016, they laid down a marker in the reverse fixture in Dublin. It was brutal. It was at times desperate (and with Fekitoa it stepped over a line), but the challenge was laid down to Ireland that the ABs weren't their bunnies.
Against France, all AB players need to show an appetite for the physical side. The French need to be put off their game just like Ireland put NZ off theirs. If NZ allow France to play, the French will play. I think the Irish played one of their finest games. They'd have stuffed most teams based on that performance. AB players are playing for their futures over next 2 years in this game.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Shall we take Donald instead then?
France this weekend isn't a big enough occasion for The Duck.
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I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And what you may get under Foster is a confused team with no game plan, and a lack of confidence that stumbles to another loss under Foster.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
How did we go from Cruden, Carter, Slade, Sopoaga to this? Really?
Two players that hardly set the world on fire
Sopoaga was pretty handy on debut against the bokke in south africa
I have to look at several people at the seem to get endless chances in AB squads and the others that were cut adrift and how much better some of them might have been if given as many chances as others
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And I can also see that happening, but just like a cricketer on the verge of being dropped, a one effort big knock will paper over the cracks for a while longer.
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And what you may get under Foster is a confused team with no game plan, and a lack of confidence that stumbles to another loss under Foster.
Well, as long as players like Havili, Mounga & Reece can do the basic things right - sadly lacking last week - we should be OK.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And what you may get under Foster is a confused team with no game plan, and a lack of confidence that stumbles to another loss under Foster.
Well, as long as players like Havili, Mounga & Reece can do the basic things right - sadly lacking last week - we should be OK.
Then we need Savea ,Retallick, Llaula,Reiko to lift their games and not miss tackles and throw the ball over the sideline and not drop the ball.
There were mistakes from nearly everyone including BB who missed 3 tackles in the 20minutes he was on.
But I am sure your fantastic coach will come up with a game plan to beat the French ,I jut hope it’s not the one we had against Ireland,or SA or England or Argentina we live in hope haha. -
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And what you may get under Foster is a confused team with no game plan, and a lack of confidence that stumbles to another loss under Foster.
Well, as long as players like Havili, Mounga & Reece can do the basic things right - sadly lacking last week - we should be OK.
Then we need Savea ,Retallick, Llaula,Reiko to lift their games and not miss tackles and throw the ball over the sideline and not drop the ball.
There were mistakes from nearly everyone including BB who missed 3 tackles in the 20minutes he was on.
But I am sure your fantastic coach will come up with a game plan to beat the French ,I jut hope it’s not the one we had against Ireland,or SA or England or Argentina we live in hope haha.How is it Foster's fault that players are missing tackles exactly? He can prepare them how best he can, but if they can't execute the basics there's not much he can do.
ABs, even though put under severe pressure had 4 really good try scoring opportunities in that game (Barrett chance at beginning, Taylor try, Jordan try, Ioane non-try), and a couple of clear breaks that may have resulted in more with better decision making. ABs took 2 of those chances, and Ireland were lucky not to get a YC after the Ioane non-try for POM cynically killing the ball right on the try line.
For a side so under the pump, that's not a bad thing to realise. Opportunities are being created at least. It would be even more worrying if ABs were creating nothing. It means teams have to raise their levels of intensity to extremes to stop the ABs from having enough opportunities. That means the ABs now have to meet that challenge and raise their own game to match or better that intensity. It is this challenge that drives the standards of the game on to greater heights.
Final thought - Ireland were annihilated by NZ 2 years ago at the WC, 46-14, and never looked like winning. NZ were annihilated 29-20 according to reports, yet had a chance to win late in the game. I've seen ABs teams under McCaw take similar beatings against SA but end up winning. Nobody saw issues with the gameplan or players then, even though the pack were getting dealt to at times.
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Then we need Savea ,Retallick, Llaula,Reiko to lift their games and not miss tackles and throw the ball over the sideline and not drop the ball.
There were mistakes from nearly everyone including BB who missed 3 tackles in the 20minutes he was on.But remember these guys haven't benefited from the Crusaders environment, or Robertson's coaching, so we shouldn't we cut them some slack....?
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@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
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@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
I want to see a team which is hurting after Dublin, playing as if their careers depended on it, looking pissed off at stupid mistakes and, above all, hungry.
And what you may get under Foster is a confused team with no game plan, and a lack of confidence that stumbles to another loss under Foster.
Well, as long as players like Havili, Mounga & Reece can do the basic things right - sadly lacking last week - we should be OK.
Then we need Savea ,Retallick, Llaula,Reiko to lift their games and not miss tackles and throw the ball over the sideline and not drop the ball.
There were mistakes from nearly everyone including BB who missed 3 tackles in the 20minutes he was on.
But I am sure your fantastic coach will come up with a game plan to beat the French ,I jut hope it’s not the one we had against Ireland,or SA or England or Argentina we live in hope haha.How is it Foster's fault that players are missing tackles exactly? He can prepare them how best he can, but if they can't execute the basics there's not much he can do.
ABs, even though put under severe pressure had 4 really good try scoring opportunities in that game (Barrett chance at beginning, Taylor try, Jordan try, Ioane non-try), and a couple of clear breaks that may have resulted in more with better decision making. ABs took 2 of those chances, and Ireland were lucky not to get a YC after the Ioane non-try for POM cynically killing the ball right on the try line.
For a side so under the pump, that's not a bad thing to realise. Opportunities are being created at least. It would be even more worrying if ABs were creating nothing. It means teams have to raise their levels of intensity to extremes to stop the ABs from having enough opportunities. That means the ABs now have to meet that challenge and raise their own game to match or better that intensity. It is this challenge that drives the standards of the game on to greater heights.
Final thought - Ireland were annihilated by NZ 2 years ago at the WC, 46-14, and never looked like winning. NZ were annihilated 29-20 according to reports, yet had a chance to win late in the game. I've seen ABs teams under McCaw take similar beatings against SA but end up winning. Nobody saw issues with the gameplan or players then, even though the pack were getting dealt to at times.
Maybe its because Foster is in control of the environment has a bad coaching record,And there seems as a lot of people including 3 Ab,s on Breakdown mentioned no game plan nothing has changed to combat these teams like Ireland ,SA, England etc.
the coach sets the tone for performance that's why he is there fix the problems Foster don't just point fingers at the players all the time.Thats great for the players confidence its bad coaching and it will get worse as Foster tries to hold on to his Job.
He is Head Coach if he is not responsible for a teams performance what is he there for. -
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Then we need Savea ,Retallick, Llaula,Reiko to lift their games and not miss tackles and throw the ball over the sideline and not drop the ball.
There were mistakes from nearly everyone including BB who missed 3 tackles in the 20minutes he was on.But remember these guys haven't benefited from the Crusaders environment, or Robertson's coaching, so we shouldn't we cut them some slack....?
I am glad you are starting to see the Light.And see your Son Ian is really quite Shit.
Coach is the problem not so much the players.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Then we need Savea ,Retallick, Llaula,Reiko to lift their games and not miss tackles and throw the ball over the sideline and not drop the ball.
There were mistakes from nearly everyone including BB who missed 3 tackles in the 20minutes he was on.But remember these guys haven't benefited from the Crusaders environment, or Robertson's coaching, so we shouldn't we cut them some slack....?
Laulala has hasn't he? And BBBR grew up in that environment before he moved to the Bay and was made a man. But I don't think either were coached by Jesus Robertson.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
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“At this point he hasn’t trained fully. He did a bit of jogging today (Tuesday in Paris), so he hasn’t completed all his protocols yet. He’s in doubt, I would say,” said the All Blacks assistant coach. In other words, it’s Richie Mo’unga back at No 10.
Aaron Smith will also surely join him in the halves (all four No 9s are available), with Plumtree making it clear there would be a price to pay for last week’s shortcomings. There will surely be tweaks in the front row, too (the starters missed nine tackles between them and were overshadowed by the skilful Irish), maybe the loose and in midfield where Quinn Tupaea and David Havili vie for the vacant 12 jersey.
“There are going to be some changes,” said Plumtree. “It’s our last game of a 15-game programme, it’s been a long trip and hopefully we can get our game going around momentum, get some gain-line … if we can do that we’ll cause some big problems for them.”
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NZ by 11-16
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders thats where we we get into the pure speculation territory
whats more likely, a coach drills the team in the basics (passing, catching, tackling, which is where we're seeing a lot of deficiencies) and then these professional sportsmen just forget....or the coach is focusing on other aspects of the game (broken play, counter attack) leaving the players to get rusty at the basics
i dont know, both seem a stupid idea but i get the feeling one of the two is happening
I would have thought a professional player good enough to make the ABs would have the basics of tackling, passing and catching pretty much baked in and not need much drilling from an AB coach.
If those skills are rusty, that's down to the coaches at the lower levels and the players themselves. I'm quite sure the likes of Nonu & Smith practised passing in their own time and set their own high standards and I'm sure plenty of todays player are the same.
HaHaHa
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Starting or not, I'd like to see Tupaea given a good bit of the game. Not ideal as he'd be with pretty inexperienced partners but it's as good a time as any. Perhaps give more game time to Vai'a as well.
Interesting to see if Cane plays and the balance of the loose trio
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