All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour
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@george33 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris-b no mounga start McKenzie at 10 and tupea and reiko in midfield that's if beauden ruled out or McKenzie on bench mounga ain't gonna win the big ones
Dollars to doughnuts that Moúnga will start (assuming Beauden is out).
Richie's already beaten everybody (well, he came on as a sub vs England, but we won).
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@george33 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris-b no mounga start McKenzie at 10 and tupea and reiko in midfield that's if beauden ruled out or McKenzie on bench mounga ain't gonna win the big ones
But McKenzie, predominantly a 15 with a handful of games at 10 (and is buggering off overseas isn't he?) is going to win the big ones?
Not saying RM is the answer, but surely playing McKenzie at 10 achieves nothing. So yeah, Foster probably will play McKenzie at 10.
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@cgrant said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@sparky said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
- Moody
- Samisoni
- Ofa T
- Vaii
- Whitelock
- A. Ioane
- D. Papail'i
- H. Sotutu
- F. Christie
- R. Mo'unga
- R. Ioane
- Havili
- Tupou
- Jordan
- J. Barrett
- D. Coles
- Karl T
- Laulala
- Retallick
- S. Cane
- A. Smith
- D. Mac
- B. Ennor
Worried about his game. France are good and their half back, Dupont, is fantastic.
Who is Tupou ?
The secret weapon that will bring physicality, patience, no errors, long kicking, ball security.
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I’d start Coles and have Sami on the bench.
Props argghhh
Retallick and Whitelock need to lift.
Was watching some highlights of France v Oz and what about a loose trio of
6- Ioane
7-Savea
8-JacobsonBlackadder on the bench.
Backs - don’t really mind who, as long as Smith starts.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@bovidae Havili is 95-96 kgs on the Mako website.
If he's going to continue playing 2nd five, I'd have him adding bulk in the offseason.
For what it's worth - I think the backs for France will be (or should be):
Smith, Mo'unga, Tupaea, RIoane, Reece, Jordan, Jordie
TJP, DMac, Havili
Reasonable probability they'll send Dave once more unto the breach with QT on the bench though.
9 Smith, 10 mo'unga Ok
But
11 Tupaea 12 Ioane 13 Reece no way! -
@crazy-horse said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@george33 said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris-b no mounga start McKenzie at 10 and tupea and reiko in midfield that's if beauden ruled out or McKenzie on bench mounga ain't gonna win the big ones
But McKenzie, predominantly a 15 with a handful of games at 10 (and is buggering off overseas isn't he?) is going to win the big ones?
Not saying RM is the answer, but surely playing McKenzie at 10 achieves nothing. So yeah, Foster probably will play McKenzie at 10.
Seems a dumb call to play DMac at 10 when he's off to Japan.But you are right Foster will probably do it.
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
DH does not smack in to it. In fact he hesitates right at the point. That's not fucking helpful.
Could a good coach improve that?
apparently he had a very good coach early in the year. Why didn't he sort it?
Coaching at AB level shouldn't be about teaching guys this level of detail.
Agree on both points.
Many of the problems with individuals are from players under Razor which raises questions on whether he really is equipped to improve players at an AB level.
He's a very good person manager and knows how to get a tea functioning well at Super level but when so called star players like Mounga seemingly have no clue what to do when faced with what teams like Ireland will bring it kind of points to him not being the saviour of NZ rugby.
Another Deans when what we need is another Wayne Smith.Genuinely clueless post. Robertson does not have any involvement with the backs specifically. Goodman is the Crusaders 'position specific coach' who works with mainly the outside backs, but also the midfield. Scott Hansen is the current inside backs coach, Mooar in previous years. Scott Hansen works individually with Mo'unga and Havili on the technical areas of their game, Razor is not involved at all.
Razor has always been a defence & breakdown specialist, that's been his specialized coaching area since ~2008/2009 seasons.
According to some former players I've talked to Razor is a rugby genius, and with regards to his attention to detail, planning & tactical aspects, Robertson is up there with Wayne Smith and most certainly ahead of Robbie Deans.
Wyatt Crockett's playing career overlapped with Deans, Henry, Smith, Hansen & Razor, in various coaching roles between 2006-2017.
According to him, Razor and Wayne Smith were the 2 standout coaches among that prestigious group.
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@kiwi_expat said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
DH does not smack in to it. In fact he hesitates right at the point. That's not fucking helpful.
Could a good coach improve that?
apparently he had a very good coach early in the year. Why didn't he sort it?
Coaching at AB level shouldn't be about teaching guys this level of detail.
Agree on both points.
Many of the problems with individuals are from players under Razor which raises questions on whether he really is equipped to improve players at an AB level.
He's a very good person manager and knows how to get a tea functioning well at Super level but when so called star players like Mounga seemingly have no clue what to do when faced with what teams like Ireland will bring it kind of points to him not being the saviour of NZ rugby.
Another Deans when what we need is another Wayne Smith.Genuinely clueless post. Robertson does not have any involvement with the backs specifically. Goodman is the Crusaders 'position specific coach' who works with mainly the backline players , including Havili, Jordan, etc.. Scott Hansen is the current inside backs coach, Mooar in previous years. Scott Hansen works individually with Mo'unga and Havili on the technical areas of their game, Razor is not involved at all.
Razor has always been a defence & breakdown specialist, that's been his specialty coaching area since around ~2008.
According to some former players I've talked to Razor is a rugby genius, and with regards to his attention to detail, planning & tactical aspects, Robertson is up there with Wayne Smith and most certainly ahead of Robbie Deans.
Wyatt Crockett's playing overlapped with Deans, Henry, Smith, Hansen & Razor, in various coaching roles between 2006-2017.
According to him, Razor and Wayne Smith were the standout coaches among that prestigious group.
Great Post and very True any ex players you talk rate Razor very highly, even the players under him in the NZ under 20's.
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
DH does not smack in to it. In fact he hesitates right at the point. That's not fucking helpful.
Could a good coach improve that?
apparently he had a very good coach early in the year. Why didn't he sort it?
Coaching at AB level shouldn't be about teaching guys this level of detail.
Agree on both points.
Many of the problems with individuals are from players under Razor which raises questions on whether he really is equipped to improve players at an AB level.
He's a very good person manager and knows how to get a tea functioning well at Super level but when so called star players like Mounga seemingly have no clue what to do when faced with what teams like Ireland will bring it kind of points to him not being the saviour of NZ rugby.
Another Deans when what we need is another Wayne Smith.I would be looking at Joseph and Brown to take the reins to be honest. Joseph's speciality is hard nosed forward packs and Brown is the creative thinker that our backs need.
Well Razor does not coach against Ireland or international teams even though he is not the Crusaders back coach its not his job.
Doesn't that fall on the current coaching staff who are supposed to be getting the players ready to play international teams,Sorting out tactics etc or are they just there for a holiday its seems like the latter Fucking useless.
Razor is coaching in an environment to defeat NZ and Australian teams and SA earlier which he had great success with.
He is not there to do AB's coaching job for them because they don't have a clue. -
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
Speaking of which, if Robertson was AB Coach, (a whatif indeed) I wonder who he'd pick as midfield..
Imagine the improvement Robertson would get out of George Bridge....
Not sure if you are serious but yes.
I think we would see most marked improvement out of Mounga. -
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@broughie said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble true but I like going forward.
Ireland exposed the outside edge of NZs defence several times on Saturday to make good ground and get into the 22. As much as the defensive effort to repel them on the goal line was exceptional at times, questions need to be asked as to why Ireland were able to get there in the first place. Doris try aside (where Taylor missed his man), it was the AB backline defence that was caught out, not necessarily Ireland going up the guts.
Irish forward interpassing was exceptional at times. V ABesque I'd say. The changing of the point of attack was very good. Ireland and France probably have the 2 best set of ball playing front rows going right now, with the Boks not far behind. Ireland have also moved to a 1-3-2-2 attack formation under Mike Catt. It has taken 2 years, but it was highly effective on Saturday. This was the attacking shape the Japanese used in the world cup to shock the Irish. It had an impact on them that they have learned from and used to their advantage.
Good to see someone else reads Murray Kinsella. Borderline you need to include references at the end of your posts to avoid ye olde plagiarism
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@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
DH does not smack in to it. In fact he hesitates right at the point. That's not fucking helpful.
Could a good coach improve that?
apparently he had a very good coach early in the year. Why didn't he sort it?
Coaching at AB level shouldn't be about teaching guys this level of detail.
Agree on both points.
Many of the problems with individuals are from players under Razor which raises questions on whether he really is equipped to improve players at an AB level.
He's a very good person manager and knows how to get a tea functioning well at Super level but when so called star players like Mounga seemingly have no clue what to do when faced with what teams like Ireland will bring it kind of points to him not being the saviour of NZ rugby.
Another Deans when what we need is another Wayne Smith.I would be looking at Joseph and Brown to take the reins to be honest. Joseph's speciality is hard nosed forward packs and Brown is the creative thinker that our backs need.
Well Razor does not coach against Ireland or international teams even though he is not the Crusaders back coach its not his job.
Doesn't that fall on the current coaching staff who are supposed to be getting the players ready to play international teams,Sorting out tactics etc or are they just there for a holiday its seems like the latter Fucking useless.
Razor is coaching in an environment to defeat NZ and Australian teams and SA earlier which he had great success with.
He is not there to do AB's coaching job for them because they don't have a clue.I’m not talking about specific tactics against specific teams. I’m talking about a player that gets close to panic when put under pressure. He doesn’t adjust or take control and drive the team around he just hoofs it back
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I'm not expecting players to come into the All Blacks environment all prepared to play at the highest level, but there are players with considerable work-ons to be considered effective Test players.
I'm happy to see Tupaea starting if for no other reason than he looks like a second five eighth. During the golden era we were blessed with two variously skilled players who could bend the line at will. Currently we don't seem to have one that can simply run hard.
As Ted used to say; a big fast man will beat a small fast man. If Jordie hadn't cemented himself as fullback, it could've been an opportunity to use him there.
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@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
DH does not smack in to it. In fact he hesitates right at the point. That's not fucking helpful.
Could a good coach improve that?
apparently he had a very good coach early in the year. Why didn't he sort it?
Coaching at AB level shouldn't be about teaching guys this level of detail.
Agree on both points.
Many of the problems with individuals are from players under Razor which raises questions on whether he really is equipped to improve players at an AB level.
He's a very good person manager and knows how to get a tea functioning well at Super level but when so called star players like Mounga seemingly have no clue what to do when faced with what teams like Ireland will bring it kind of points to him not being the saviour of NZ rugby.
Another Deans when what we need is another Wayne Smith.I would be looking at Joseph and Brown to take the reins to be honest. Joseph's speciality is hard nosed forward packs and Brown is the creative thinker that our backs need.
Well Razor does not coach against Ireland or international teams even though he is not the Crusaders back coach its not his job.
Doesn't that fall on the current coaching staff who are supposed to be getting the players ready to play international teams,Sorting out tactics etc or are they just there for a holiday its seems like the latter Fucking useless.
Razor is coaching in an environment to defeat NZ and Australian teams and SA earlier which he had great success with.
He is not there to do AB's coaching job for them because they don't have a clue.I’m not talking about specific tactics against specific teams. I’m talking about a player that gets close to panic when put under pressure. He doesn’t adjust or take control and drive the team around he just hoofs it back
Is it not the AB's Coaching job to help him,Or JB and BB for hooving it down the middle of the park all the time v Ireland when we only had 39% of the ball.
They don't normally all play that way under pressure under other coaching units. -
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
DH does not smack in to it. In fact he hesitates right at the point. That's not fucking helpful.
Could a good coach improve that?
apparently he had a very good coach early in the year. Why didn't he sort it?
Coaching at AB level shouldn't be about teaching guys this level of detail.
Agree on both points.
Many of the problems with individuals are from players under Razor which raises questions on whether he really is equipped to improve players at an AB level.
He's a very good person manager and knows how to get a tea functioning well at Super level but when so called star players like Mounga seemingly have no clue what to do when faced with what teams like Ireland will bring it kind of points to him not being the saviour of NZ rugby.
Another Deans when what we need is another Wayne Smith.I would be looking at Joseph and Brown to take the reins to be honest. Joseph's speciality is hard nosed forward packs and Brown is the creative thinker that our backs need.
Well Razor does not coach against Ireland or international teams even though he is not the Crusaders back coach its not his job.
Doesn't that fall on the current coaching staff who are supposed to be getting the players ready to play international teams,Sorting out tactics etc or are they just there for a holiday its seems like the latter Fucking useless.
Razor is coaching in an environment to defeat NZ and Australian teams and SA earlier which he had great success with.
He is not there to do AB's coaching job for them because they don't have a clue.I’m not talking about specific tactics against specific teams. I’m talking about a player that gets close to panic when put under pressure. He doesn’t adjust or take control and drive the team around he just hoofs it back
Is it not the AB's Coaching job to help him,Or JB and BB for hooving it down the middle of the park all the time v Ireland when we only had 39% of the ball.
They don't normally all play that way under pressure under other coaching units.You’re kind of missing the point which was that players already under Razors overall tutelage haven’t developed skills to play at the highest level. Therefore why do we think he will do only when he reaches that level?
If we can see RMs obvious test weaknesses then surely Razor can.
Yes his job is at the level down but he still has overall responsibility to make his players the best they can be (or direct his assistants too).
I’d take Cruden over RM. -
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@nzzp said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
DH does not smack in to it. In fact he hesitates right at the point. That's not fucking helpful.
Could a good coach improve that?
apparently he had a very good coach early in the year. Why didn't he sort it?
Coaching at AB level shouldn't be about teaching guys this level of detail.
Agree on both points.
Many of the problems with individuals are from players under Razor which raises questions on whether he really is equipped to improve players at an AB level.
He's a very good person manager and knows how to get a tea functioning well at Super level but when so called star players like Mounga seemingly have no clue what to do when faced with what teams like Ireland will bring it kind of points to him not being the saviour of NZ rugby.
Another Deans when what we need is another Wayne Smith.I would be looking at Joseph and Brown to take the reins to be honest. Joseph's speciality is hard nosed forward packs and Brown is the creative thinker that our backs need.
Well Razor does not coach against Ireland or international teams even though he is not the Crusaders back coach its not his job.
Doesn't that fall on the current coaching staff who are supposed to be getting the players ready to play international teams,Sorting out tactics etc or are they just there for a holiday its seems like the latter Fucking useless.
Razor is coaching in an environment to defeat NZ and Australian teams and SA earlier which he had great success with.
He is not there to do AB's coaching job for them because they don't have a clue.I’m not talking about specific tactics against specific teams. I’m talking about a player that gets close to panic when put under pressure. He doesn’t adjust or take control and drive the team around he just hoofs it back
Is it not the AB's Coaching job to help him,Or JB and BB for hooving it down the middle of the park all the time v Ireland when we only had 39% of the ball.
They don't normally all play that way under pressure under other coaching units.You’re kind of missing the point which was that players already under Razors overall tutelage haven’t developed skills to play at the highest level. Therefore why do we think he will do only when he reaches that level?
If we can see RMs obvious test weaknesses then surely Razor can.
Yes his job is at the level down but he still has overall responsibility to make his players the best they can be (or direct his assistants too).
I’d take Cruden over RM.But RM performs great under Razor in the environment he is coaching in.You can't really expect Razor to coach RM to play at a different level thats the AB coaching job.
Its not his job Razors job is to get RM performing well in his environment and hes brilliant under Razor.
You can't coach a player for a different level when you are coaching at a different level against teams who play differently.Otherwise you are not doing the job you are being paid for. -
@billy-tell said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@broughie said in All Blacks v France, 2021 NH Tour:
@kiwiwomble true but I like going forward.
Ireland exposed the outside edge of NZs defence several times on Saturday to make good ground and get into the 22. As much as the defensive effort to repel them on the goal line was exceptional at times, questions need to be asked as to why Ireland were able to get there in the first place. Doris try aside (where Taylor missed his man), it was the AB backline defence that was caught out, not necessarily Ireland going up the guts.
Irish forward interpassing was exceptional at times. V ABesque I'd say. The changing of the point of attack was very good. Ireland and France probably have the 2 best set of ball playing front rows going right now, with the Boks not far behind. Ireland have also moved to a 1-3-2-2 attack formation under Mike Catt. It has taken 2 years, but it was highly effective on Saturday. This was the attacking shape the Japanese used in the world cup to shock the Irish. It had an impact on them that they have learned from and used to their advantage.
Good to see someone else reads Murray Kinsella. Borderline you need to include references at the end of your posts to avoid ye olde plagiarism
Love Murray's analysis. Charlie Morgan and Ekrugbyanalysis too. It was this piece that prompted my post:
The evolving Ireland attack that England face: Jordan Larmour, a 1-3-2-2 formation and foundations laid by Joe Schmidt
Ireland are already showing signs of progress under Andy Farrell and Mike Catt
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And this one from Mr Kinsella
Ireland's offloads, Furlong the playmaker, and 1-3-2-2 attack shape
Andy Farrell’s side scored nine tries as they dismantled Japan in Dublin.
