All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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Honest answer tho: the last 2 games - actually 3 if you think about the performance against Japan - have been disappointing given where we were headed with a fit and firing Cooper, Kerevi, and Koroibete.
We got trophies from France, Boks, and Pumas. We got pooched from the Bled, but that is not unexpected, historically speaking. Everyone judging what we should do based on what Eales and co did do is a false economy. I mean, look at the AB teams being picked around that time. Historically not good.
The Wallaby team on EOYT is not as good a team as faced the Boks and Pumas. Then throw in a few injuries and whatnot, and a couple of HIAs, and suddenly our depth is exposed, particularly where we aren't flying in replacements.
However, I'd rather be where we are now than under Cheika. Don't think anyone will argue with that.
And TBH there is a lot still to go right in the next 2 years to RWC2023. In a lot of ways this is the gamble, but if we can start putting performances together and THEN get RWC2027 hosted, we can turn it around across the hierarchy.
Or piss it away up a wall. Whatevs.
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I'll probably sound like a cock saying this after the fact, but I didn't watch this live because I thought there was a good chance we would crumble. I read the thread anyway, because there were bound to be some quality rants (not disappointed in that at least) and having heard that Ireland were actually good, thought I might give it a watch.
I'm 5 minutes in. ALB has made two bad defensive reads giving Ireland space and momentum. TJ has killed momentum and we've lost the ball by him throwing a pass behind someone. Rieko has lost the ball in contact. Beauden has thrown Savea a hospital pass which he has dropped in contact. Every other time we've had the ball we've kicked it away.
Then a scoring opportunity and ALB throws a terrible pass into Irish hands at the line.
Now TJ has given them space and momentum by being in the Irish backline instead of holding the defensive line.
This is only 12 minutes in, and I think Foster is fucking hopeless, but so far I'm pretty surprised to be with him on blaming the backs (not Jordie or Jordan, and Reece has hardly been involved).
Now some endless replays of a bullshit collision, so I'm assuming this is the yellow card. Yep. FFS. What a joke. -
@act-crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
With Jordie’s huge boot we should have prioritised playing in their half rather than clever up and unders in our half.
The real elephant in the room was why didn't the players recognise that and change tactics?
ALB took the backline brain when he went off.
Yep. Experience and calm heads in mid-field looks really thin
I reckon the ALB / Goodhue midfield would’ve been the first choice one going into the year. Two players that could complement each other and offer something different.
Sure, but recall two things...
First, when they last played together, thanks to Fosters coaching masterstroke, they had swapped positions and were pretty shite due to Goodhue not being a 12, much like Havili clearly isn't a 12. Also, Goodhue's form was off, badly, from his freshman year.
What is clear, is that ALB is our best in the centres, the question is, who to best partner him with. I prefer ALB at 13 and think that we need a big, strong, ball playing 12. I do like the look of young Tupaea but he clearly needs some time to develop his game.
But as of right now, I'd take Tupaea over both Havili and Goodhue at 12 and therefore my starting centre partnership for France would be 12. Tupaea and 13. ALB (if fit).
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I'll probably sound like a cock saying this after the fact, but I didn't watch this live because I thought there was a good chance we would crumble
Mission accomplished 😉
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@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Jesus, they're living in their own dream world confirmation bubble. Don't expect any real growth in the ABs until post world cup
Prop Joe Moody backed the side's game plan for the Ireland test, saying that they just failed to take the right options at key times.
"Watching the review this morning, we're still creating the opportunities, we're just - at that final hurdle - choosing the wrong option and not quite executing. I don't feel like it's a game plan thing."I suppose he can’t say much else if they have just come out of a review with the coache’s.They must have lead the way with that stuff in the review and the players have to come out and back it up.
Really he might want to have said the game plan and the coaching staff are shit can we please dump them. As I am sick of listening to their BS.
But that’s not good for the pay packet.Was the game plan to fluff around within 40m of our goal line trying high risk plays, to concede inevitable penalties, which turn into threes and fives, but to eventually make clean breaks and score enough 60m tries to win?
If so, it’s pretty hard on the fans.
I’d prefer in our 40 to give it to Jordie and hoof it into oppo 22.
Might be just me.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Jesus, they're living in their own dream world confirmation bubble. Don't expect any real growth in the ABs until post world cup
Prop Joe Moody backed the side's game plan for the Ireland test, saying that they just failed to take the right options at key times.
"Watching the review this morning, we're still creating the opportunities, we're just - at that final hurdle - choosing the wrong option and not quite executing. I don't feel like it's a game plan thing."I suppose he can’t say much else if they have just come out of a review with the coache’s.They must have lead the way with that stuff in the review and the players have to come out and back it up.
Really he might want to have said the game plan and the coaching staff are shit can we please dump them. As I am sick of listening to their BS.
But that’s not good for the pay packet.Was the game plan to fluff around within 49m of our goal line trying high risk plays, to concede inevitable penalties, which turn into threes and fives, but to eventually make clean breaks and score enough 60m tries to win?
If so, it’s pretty hard on the fans.
I’d prefer in our 40 to give it to Jordie and hoof it into oppo 22.
Might be just me.
To be honest I have no idea if there is a game plan under Foster,I don't see what we are trying achieve half the time apart from hoping something will happen.
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@roninwc given Goodhue had returned to 13 for the Saders and the fact that Foster came to the party to stop playing Jordie on the wing and moved him to his rightful position of fullback, I think he may have moved Goodhue back.
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Rest of the 1st half.
Ireland score with basic hands in the backs from the YC penalty. Good forward maul lineout defence, good forward defence on the line, then we can't cope with them making basic passes out wide. Poor organisation, poor backline defence.
TJ spraying slow passes to kill momentum again. Hard to think of a worse halfback to combat a rush defence. Or a worse halfback to replace A Smith's part in a team game plan.
Now 20 mins in and the forwards can't receive the kick-off cleanly. Their first real mistake.
Beauden attempts to tackle with his head, so he's off. Solid defence apart from that.
Dubious held up call on Jordan, but fuck my days whoever called a blindside one on one move when we're packing a 7 man scrum without a fucking blindside is a fucking moron. You'd roast a fucking school kid for doing that.
Moody penalised at scrum, couldn't really see what happened.
Great try line defence from the forwards. We win a relieving penalty, then TJ taps it 5m from our line and we boot it down the middle of the field, brainlessly giving possession back in our own half, and Ireland straight back on the attack.
Get out of jail again, only for Savea to throw a terrible pass to nobody. Basic skills.
29 mins gone and we've made 77 tackles to their 35.
Ireland score a soft try, rightly called back for crawling, but doesn't excuse that defensive alignment.
And now the Irish leave a huge hole for Dalton, and he puts Taylor away. Fresh legs eh Cody?
TJ kicks too far, uncontestable, Ireland back on attack. Penalty for Blackadder late tackle and we're back on the try line. Very good defence and a great turnover from Whitelock, but TJ fucks up the clearance, so Ireland back on our line. They knock it on in a tackle, and TJ manages to put it out this time. 143 tackles to 73 now.
Rieko offside, Blackadder makes a turnover so no advantage, they go for the corner and fuck it up for halftime.
We've defended pretty bloody well on our own line. But our accuracy with the ball, and our tactics when we get it and willingness to give it straight back, are genuinely shit. On the upside, Blackadder really prominent in defence, Paps and the 2 locks both solid as too. Jordan, Jordie and Reece all trying hard. -
@nta said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I'll probably sound like a cock saying this after the fact, but I didn't watch this live because I thought there was a good chance we would crumble
Mission accomplished 😉
Didn't watch the cricket either Nuck. That's because 20/20 doesn't matter and nobody cares about it (after the fact).
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nta said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I'll probably sound like a cock saying this after the fact, but I didn't watch this live because I thought there was a good chance we would crumble
Mission accomplished 😉
Didn't watch the cricket either Nuck. That's because 20/20 doesn't matter and nobody cares about it (after the fact).
I still don't 🤷♂️
Ashes is coming.... I'll be working from home... Fuck yeah!
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@roninwc given Goodhue had returned to 13 for the Saders and the fact that Foster came to the party to stop playing Jordie on the wing and moved him to his rightful position of fullback, I think he may have moved Goodhue back.
I think you assume way too much and give Foster too much credit here.
The best you can say is maybe and maybe not. But whether he did or not, it still doesn't help that Goodhue's form was also off, quite badly IMO.
I don't think we can sit here and think Goodhue will be the return of our savior by any means.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
So sincere questions for the Fern:
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Are there any players not in the current AB squad that you believe would make a difference? What do you think they would offer above the existing players in their position?
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Assuming the answer to 1 isn't an extensive list, do you believe the current set of players have the conditioning to play a more forward, attritional style of game?
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Assuming the ABs need to bulk up to meet the challenge of Ireland, SA and England, is the major work not in the hands of Nic Gill in terms of changing the physique of the ABs to suit that type of game? Or do you believe it is more a question of mentality that the ABs are lacking right now in terms of how they are approaching the challenge of owning the collisions (both forwards and backs)?
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Is there a foreign born coach that you would select to mould the ABs into a world beating outfit? If so, who? Of course, I know there are lots of v good NZ coaches available. I'm thinking of the angle of someone from outside the NZ bubble being able to make cold, hard decisions without any bias.
All good questions. Just don't have the energy to answer.
Except about foreign coach. Can't think of any I'd have in front of the plethora of NZers out there.
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@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
So sincere questions for the Fern:
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Are there any players not in the current AB squad that you believe would make a difference? What do you think they would offer above the existing players in their position?
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Assuming the answer to 1 isn't an extensive list, do you believe the current set of players have the conditioning to play a more forward, attritional style of game?
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Assuming the ABs need to bulk up to meet the challenge of Ireland, SA and England, is the major work not in the hands of Nic Gill in terms of changing the physique of the ABs to suit that type of game? Or do you believe it is more a question of mentality that the ABs are lacking right now in terms of how they are approaching the challenge of owning the collisions (both forwards and backs)?
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Is there a foreign born coach that you would select to mould the ABs into a world beating outfit? If so, who? Of course, I know there are lots of v good NZ coaches available. I'm thinking of the angle of someone from outside the NZ bubble being able to make cold, hard decisions without any bias.
All good questions. Just don't have the energy to answer.
Except about foreign coach. Can't think of any I'd have in front of the plethora of NZers out there.
I'd take the Georgian coach in a heartbeat...
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Rest of the 1st half.
Ireland score with basic hands in the backs from the YC penalty. Good forward maul lineout defence, good forward defence on the line, then we can't cope with them making basic passes out wide. Poor organisation, poor backline defence.
TJ spraying slow passes to kill momentum again. Hard to think of a worse halfback to combat a rush defence. Or a worse halfback to replace A Smith's part in a team game plan.
Now 20 mins in and the forwards can't receive the kick-off cleanly. Their first real mistake.
Beauden attempts to tackle with his head, so he's off. Solid defence apart from that.
Dubious held up call on Jordan, but fuck my days whoever called a blindside one on one move when we're packing a 7 man scrum without a fucking blindside is a fucking moron. You'd roast a fucking school kid for doing that.
Moody penalised at scrum, couldn't really see what happened.
Great try line defence from the forwards. We win a relieving penalty, then TJ taps it 5m from our line and we boot it down the middle of the field, brainlessly giving possession back in our own half, and Ireland straight back on the attack.
Get out of jail again, only for Savea to throw a terrible pass to nobody. Basic skills.
29 mins gone and we've made 77 tackles to their 35.
Ireland score a soft try, rightly called back for crawling, but doesn't excuse that defensive alignment.
And now the Irish leave a huge hole for Dalton, and he puts Taylor away. Fresh legs eh Cody?
TJ kicks too far, uncontestable, Ireland back on attack. Penalty for Blackadder late tackle and we're back on the try line. Very good defence and a great turnover from Whitelock, but TJ fucks up the clearance, so Ireland back on our line. They knock it on in a tackle, and TJ manages to put it out this time. 143 tackles to 73 now.
Rieko offside, Blackadder makes a turnover so no advantage, they go for the corner and fuck it up for halftime.
We've defended pretty bloody well on our own line. But our accuracy with the ball, and our tactics when we get it and willingness to give it straight back, are genuinely shit. On the upside, Blackadder really prominent in defence, Paps and the 2 locks both solid as too. Jordan, Jordie and Reece all trying hard.Enjoying this, looking forward to your suffering in the 2nd half.
Maybe we need to nominate a different Ferner to take this role on every week...
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
For those criticizing Foster and his team, please reflect.
He did after all save a place at 13 for Ennor. Obvious selection genius.And he played Reiko at 13 today - something many wanted, I might add.
Rieko. Who has played better for the ABs than Ennor AND played better than him in the midfield AND was a far more experienced AB.
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@chester-draws said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mencey said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
I cannot believe that they did not appoint Robertson as coach. The current one just has not got what it take. Look how well Canterbury and the Crusaders have done under him and I do not like either but admire both. Foster never had what it takes. The whole forward pack needs to toughen the fuck up while I am on this rant.
OK. Very fair points. But what if the problems aren't Foster or aren't just Foster? What if we get Robertson in and things don't improve that much? What do we do then?
But they are all down to Foster. So trying to fix them some other way isn't going to work.
Those of us who follow the Chiefs knows how this goes -- there will be some false dawns where improvement appears to happen, followed soon after by ever more awful outcomes. Foster doesn't get better over time, that we know.
The "what happens if Robertson sucks argument" is lame. Do we keep Foster on for the next 50 years, just in case the next guy is worse? Which, in Robertson's case, he definitely isn't.
You're dead right on the mid-field, but we've had 6 years - six fucking years - to sort out some stability which takes into account injuries, and yet our options for the France game are now down to two inexperienced tyros in Ennor & Tupaea, an out-of-form Havili and/or Reiko who's a great wing but lacks goods at 13 at Test level.
When did Foster join the AB set-up. Would it be about six fucking years ago?
That's not all down to Foster (I actually give him credit for at least trying to fix the issue) - that's down to NZRFU taking their eye off the ball on ensuring long-term player development.
Bull. Hansen tried things. The "dual playmaker" gambit didn't work, but he did try something new.
What innovation is Foster delivering to the team? Be specific.
You seem to be saying all the problems in NZ rugby for the last 6 years, particularly the midfield, are down to one man - Foster. That's a pretty myopic and simplistic view to take IMO, unless Foster is some secret evil genius who controls ever aspect of rugby in NZ
If you think there aren't any deeper problems, we have talent to burn in the country, other teams aren't getting better and all is good in NZ rugby-land, and changing one member of personnel is an easy, sure-fire route to success, then fine. Just don't expect me to agree with you.
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@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Foster has been in the ABs coaching set up for 9 years he started in 2012
Not sure what your point is. We were pretty successful for 5 years when he was involved and he got the best out of players?
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
For those criticizing Foster and his team, please reflect.
He did after all save a place at 13 for Ennor. Obvious selection genius.And he played Reiko at 13 today - something many wanted, I might add.
Rieko. Who has played better for the ABs than Ennor AND played better than him in the midfield AND was a far more experienced AB.
He's the least-worst option at 13 at the moment with injuries.
Don't get me wrong - I rate RI, particularly how he came back from injury unlike a lot of other wings, and he'd be one of the first names on the team sheet, just not at 13
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