All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Jesus, they're living in their own dream world confirmation bubble. Don't expect any real growth in the ABs until post world cup
Prop Joe Moody backed the side's game plan for the Ireland test, saying that they just failed to take the right options at key times.
"Watching the review this morning, we're still creating the opportunities, we're just - at that final hurdle - choosing the wrong option and not quite executing. I don't feel like it's a game plan thing."Living in their own little world certainly makes sense when you consider the Frizzell selection.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
Maybe so, but the way the game was played wasn't great. I didn't feel we were in control of the game much at all
devils advocate
of course we weren't. But the game isn't about being in control, ultimately the game is about scoring more points than the opposition
Perhaps these dudes know the limitations we have, pick a bunch of guys who will keep the score close by tackling and scrambling like dervishes, and then ruthlessly exploit the 3 or 4 opportunities we are given.
I'm not saying it's a great plan. And it's not one I'm a fan of. But, it is a plan, and, if i think about our players, it's not a stupid idea.
I know youre playing devils advocate, but in context it isnt one, loss, we still lost to Arge, SA, Aus and Ireland in close to a year.
I am going to suggest the game plan hasnt changed for over a decade, it feels like it was built around the GOAT (which I can understand), however I cant remember us dominating turnovers or retaining ball to consistently to give us enough opportunites consistently to win against the top teams, since we were doing it with Ritchie around.
So is 3 or 4 enough? Sometimes it is I guess and we have results to prove it, however I supect a lot now think it isnt good enough any longer.
I am going to go to suggest we do have the cattle, even the ones that leave show that playing us. We have a few things to fix which have already been mentioned but the inferior version of Hansen ball just makes it worse.
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@bayimports our main way of accumulating points for ages was ruthlessly exploiting broken field from turnover or, more regularly, bad kicks. (2003 called and wants its plan back!!)
These two things are pretty easy to cut off.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@bayimports our main way of accumulating points for ages was ruthlessly exploiting broken field from turnover or, more regularly, bad kicks. (2003 called and wants its plan back!!)
These two things are pretty easy to cut off.
Both are related to dominant tackles too
A dominant tackle makes it easier for the second arriving player to pilfer. Also, a momentum killing tackle cuts down the attack options and forces the kick.
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@duluth said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@bayimports our main way of accumulating points for ages was ruthlessly exploiting broken field from turnover or, more regularly, bad kicks. (2003 called and wants its plan back!!)
These two things are pretty easy to cut off.
Both are related to dominant tackles too
A dominant tackle makes it easier for the second arriving player to pilfer. Also, a momentum killing tackle cuts down the attack options and forces the kick.
yep, i've said the same thing a bunch since Sunday. The reason the irish had so much ball is we never gave ourselves a chance to get it back
We also don't have a guy who is really good on teh ground.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@bayimports our main way of accumulating points for ages was ruthlessly exploiting broken field from turnover or, more regularly, bad kicks. (2003 called and wants its plan back!!)
These two things are pretty easy to cut off.
It still works a lot of the time. Problem is that when a team is extra focused and organised on executing a gameplan that negates this, and has the right personnel (not the odd few flakes like Australia), it doesn't.
Key matchup games like England, SA, Ireland, and possibly France open up the very possibility of them playing well and us struggling. If they don't execute well then we still win.
I agree that we need to come up with a new style, or at the least have a counter to when a team turns up, plays the negation, and is in good form. We are back to the no plan B days again.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@bayimports our main way of accumulating points for ages was ruthlessly exploiting broken field from turnover or, more regularly, bad kicks. (2003 called and wants its plan back!!)
These two things are pretty easy to cut off.
Both are related to dominant tackles too
A dominant tackle makes it easier for the second arriving player to pilfer. Also, a momentum killing tackle cuts down the attack options and forces the kick.
yep, i've said the same thing a bunch since Sunday. The reason the irish had so much ball is we never gave ourselves a chance to get it back
We also don't have a guy who is really good on teh ground.
We had one but wouldn't invest in him. Boshier.
By far the best jackler in the country. -
@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@dan54 Give Rennie time. Remember his team beat the Boks twice, it’s his first year coaching an international team unlike Foster and is their depth better than ours?
Um I a like Rennie, but I don't know how to break this to you, he's actually coached the Wallabies as long as Foster has done the ABs, and it's not his first year, but second!
I not knocking him by any means (actually always been a Rennie fan) or saying he better or worse than Foster (never would) .
There is one thing I can guarantee you, I (and I guessing anyone on this bored) would have a lot less knowledge of who should be coaching any teams than the people who appoint the coaches.
From an Aussie perspective Rennie has won nothing of importance in 2 years, had a 16% winning record last year, and again this year hasn't won Bledisloe or RC, but not blaming him in anyway.
ABs have held Bled both years, and won RC both years, once again is that because of players or coaches, who knows.
Although as AB supporters we want to win every test usually, but that doesn't happen very often at all, apart from a couple of times when we had a team with 2 once in a lifetime players called Richie McCaw and Dan Carter, backed up by a team withprobably 5-6 player who would make a world XV. -
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@duluth said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@bayimports our main way of accumulating points for ages was ruthlessly exploiting broken field from turnover or, more regularly, bad kicks. (2003 called and wants its plan back!!)
These two things are pretty easy to cut off.
Both are related to dominant tackles too
A dominant tackle makes it easier for the second arriving player to pilfer. Also, a momentum killing tackle cuts down the attack options and forces the kick.
yep, i've said the same thing a bunch since Sunday. The reason the irish had so much ball is we never gave ourselves a chance to get it back
We also don't have a guy who is really good on teh ground.
We had one but wouldn't invest in him. Boshier.
By far the best jackler in the country.Yep Boshier was a pretty good jackler, but was perhaps a little weaker at other parts of his game. A 7 is not always the best jackler in teams these days, quite often it is midfield backs who are coming in second to the tackle.
One of the great fallacies is that Richie was alway a great jackler the last few years he was not usually the one getting the most turnovers in a game, his strength was he was a great 7 at all parts of game. -
Um I a like Rennie, but I don't know how to break this to you, he's actually coached the Wallabies as long as Foster has done the ABs, and it's not his first year, but second!
I not knocking him by any means (actually always been a Rennie fan) or saying he better or worse than Foster (never would) .@dan54 yes that was pointed out to me. Covid has blurred a lot as far as timeline. But you do admit Foster has been involved with the ABs for 9 years (per @Chris) and I don’t think he was a passenger.
There is one thing I can guarantee you, I (and I guessing anyone on this bored) would have a lot less knowledge of who should be coaching any teams than the people who appoint the coaches.
So we shouldn’t have opinions as they we don’t know what the f we are talking about. You agree with the NZRFU then because most on this board don’t. Most here would have preferred Rennie, Joseph and Brown or Razor. Certainly not status quo.
From an Aussie perspective Rennie has won nothing of importance in 2 years, had a 16% winning record last year, and again this year hasn't won Bledisloe or RC, but not blaming him in anyway.
Agree but I think they will be happy beating the Boks twice where we struggle both times. Bottom line he has a tough job ahead of him with less depth than we have (although some might debate this). I am willing to give him more time. Wonder what @NTA thinks.
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Honest answer tho: the last 2 games - actually 3 if you think about the performance against Japan - have been disappointing given where we were headed with a fit and firing Cooper, Kerevi, and Koroibete.
We got trophies from France, Boks, and Pumas. We got pooched from the Bled, but that is not unexpected, historically speaking. Everyone judging what we should do based on what Eales and co did do is a false economy. I mean, look at the AB teams being picked around that time. Historically not good.
The Wallaby team on EOYT is not as good a team as faced the Boks and Pumas. Then throw in a few injuries and whatnot, and a couple of HIAs, and suddenly our depth is exposed, particularly where we aren't flying in replacements.
However, I'd rather be where we are now than under Cheika. Don't think anyone will argue with that.
And TBH there is a lot still to go right in the next 2 years to RWC2023. In a lot of ways this is the gamble, but if we can start putting performances together and THEN get RWC2027 hosted, we can turn it around across the hierarchy.
Or piss it away up a wall. Whatevs.
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I'll probably sound like a cock saying this after the fact, but I didn't watch this live because I thought there was a good chance we would crumble. I read the thread anyway, because there were bound to be some quality rants (not disappointed in that at least) and having heard that Ireland were actually good, thought I might give it a watch.
I'm 5 minutes in. ALB has made two bad defensive reads giving Ireland space and momentum. TJ has killed momentum and we've lost the ball by him throwing a pass behind someone. Rieko has lost the ball in contact. Beauden has thrown Savea a hospital pass which he has dropped in contact. Every other time we've had the ball we've kicked it away.
Then a scoring opportunity and ALB throws a terrible pass into Irish hands at the line.
Now TJ has given them space and momentum by being in the Irish backline instead of holding the defensive line.
This is only 12 minutes in, and I think Foster is fucking hopeless, but so far I'm pretty surprised to be with him on blaming the backs (not Jordie or Jordan, and Reece has hardly been involved).
Now some endless replays of a bullshit collision, so I'm assuming this is the yellow card. Yep. FFS. What a joke. -
@act-crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
With Jordie’s huge boot we should have prioritised playing in their half rather than clever up and unders in our half.
The real elephant in the room was why didn't the players recognise that and change tactics?
ALB took the backline brain when he went off.
Yep. Experience and calm heads in mid-field looks really thin
I reckon the ALB / Goodhue midfield would’ve been the first choice one going into the year. Two players that could complement each other and offer something different.
Sure, but recall two things...
First, when they last played together, thanks to Fosters coaching masterstroke, they had swapped positions and were pretty shite due to Goodhue not being a 12, much like Havili clearly isn't a 12. Also, Goodhue's form was off, badly, from his freshman year.
What is clear, is that ALB is our best in the centres, the question is, who to best partner him with. I prefer ALB at 13 and think that we need a big, strong, ball playing 12. I do like the look of young Tupaea but he clearly needs some time to develop his game.
But as of right now, I'd take Tupaea over both Havili and Goodhue at 12 and therefore my starting centre partnership for France would be 12. Tupaea and 13. ALB (if fit).
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I'll probably sound like a cock saying this after the fact, but I didn't watch this live because I thought there was a good chance we would crumble
Mission accomplished 😉
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@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Jesus, they're living in their own dream world confirmation bubble. Don't expect any real growth in the ABs until post world cup
Prop Joe Moody backed the side's game plan for the Ireland test, saying that they just failed to take the right options at key times.
"Watching the review this morning, we're still creating the opportunities, we're just - at that final hurdle - choosing the wrong option and not quite executing. I don't feel like it's a game plan thing."I suppose he can’t say much else if they have just come out of a review with the coache’s.They must have lead the way with that stuff in the review and the players have to come out and back it up.
Really he might want to have said the game plan and the coaching staff are shit can we please dump them. As I am sick of listening to their BS.
But that’s not good for the pay packet.Was the game plan to fluff around within 40m of our goal line trying high risk plays, to concede inevitable penalties, which turn into threes and fives, but to eventually make clean breaks and score enough 60m tries to win?
If so, it’s pretty hard on the fans.
I’d prefer in our 40 to give it to Jordie and hoof it into oppo 22.
Might be just me.
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@pakman said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@chris said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Jesus, they're living in their own dream world confirmation bubble. Don't expect any real growth in the ABs until post world cup
Prop Joe Moody backed the side's game plan for the Ireland test, saying that they just failed to take the right options at key times.
"Watching the review this morning, we're still creating the opportunities, we're just - at that final hurdle - choosing the wrong option and not quite executing. I don't feel like it's a game plan thing."I suppose he can’t say much else if they have just come out of a review with the coache’s.They must have lead the way with that stuff in the review and the players have to come out and back it up.
Really he might want to have said the game plan and the coaching staff are shit can we please dump them. As I am sick of listening to their BS.
But that’s not good for the pay packet.Was the game plan to fluff around within 49m of our goal line trying high risk plays, to concede inevitable penalties, which turn into threes and fives, but to eventually make clean breaks and score enough 60m tries to win?
If so, it’s pretty hard on the fans.
I’d prefer in our 40 to give it to Jordie and hoof it into oppo 22.
Might be just me.
To be honest I have no idea if there is a game plan under Foster,I don't see what we are trying achieve half the time apart from hoping something will happen.
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@roninwc given Goodhue had returned to 13 for the Saders and the fact that Foster came to the party to stop playing Jordie on the wing and moved him to his rightful position of fullback, I think he may have moved Goodhue back.
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Rest of the 1st half.
Ireland score with basic hands in the backs from the YC penalty. Good forward maul lineout defence, good forward defence on the line, then we can't cope with them making basic passes out wide. Poor organisation, poor backline defence.
TJ spraying slow passes to kill momentum again. Hard to think of a worse halfback to combat a rush defence. Or a worse halfback to replace A Smith's part in a team game plan.
Now 20 mins in and the forwards can't receive the kick-off cleanly. Their first real mistake.
Beauden attempts to tackle with his head, so he's off. Solid defence apart from that.
Dubious held up call on Jordan, but fuck my days whoever called a blindside one on one move when we're packing a 7 man scrum without a fucking blindside is a fucking moron. You'd roast a fucking school kid for doing that.
Moody penalised at scrum, couldn't really see what happened.
Great try line defence from the forwards. We win a relieving penalty, then TJ taps it 5m from our line and we boot it down the middle of the field, brainlessly giving possession back in our own half, and Ireland straight back on the attack.
Get out of jail again, only for Savea to throw a terrible pass to nobody. Basic skills.
29 mins gone and we've made 77 tackles to their 35.
Ireland score a soft try, rightly called back for crawling, but doesn't excuse that defensive alignment.
And now the Irish leave a huge hole for Dalton, and he puts Taylor away. Fresh legs eh Cody?
TJ kicks too far, uncontestable, Ireland back on attack. Penalty for Blackadder late tackle and we're back on the try line. Very good defence and a great turnover from Whitelock, but TJ fucks up the clearance, so Ireland back on our line. They knock it on in a tackle, and TJ manages to put it out this time. 143 tackles to 73 now.
Rieko offside, Blackadder makes a turnover so no advantage, they go for the corner and fuck it up for halftime.
We've defended pretty bloody well on our own line. But our accuracy with the ball, and our tactics when we get it and willingness to give it straight back, are genuinely shit. On the upside, Blackadder really prominent in defence, Paps and the 2 locks both solid as too. Jordan, Jordie and Reece all trying hard. -
@nta said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I'll probably sound like a cock saying this after the fact, but I didn't watch this live because I thought there was a good chance we would crumble
Mission accomplished 😉
Didn't watch the cricket either Nuck. That's because 20/20 doesn't matter and nobody cares about it (after the fact).
'Wee bit of anger': How All Blacks plan to bounce back after confronting review
