All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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Smith will magically fix all these issues.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders I think the backs aren’t given much of a chance. Yes they made mistakes and some ownership there but what kind of forward platform does he think is good? I don’t understand the man.
I think he's saying that mistakes by the backs and poor ball retention are disrupting the forwards by forcing them onto the defensive and disrupting their momentum.
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@bones said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Smith will magically fix all these issues.
Conrad's long gone. Might be an idea to tap his not-inconsiderable brain on back-play though
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Smith will magically fix all these issues.
Conrad's long gone. Might be an idea to tap his not-inconsiderable brain on back-play though
Good call on Conrad. I'm surprised Nonu and Smith aren't being brought into the fold to mentor the next set of centres.
Bones could have been referring to Wayne 😁
Although I suspect he's being sarcastic and referring to Aaron 😜
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Good call on Conrad. I'm surprised Nonu and Smith aren't being brought into the fold to mentor the next set of centres.
That would require forward planning. Much easier to sit back and bask in former glories.
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Victor Meldrewreplied to Tim on 15 Nov 2021, 17:34 last edited by Victor Meldrew 15 Nov 2021, 17:50
I'd stick with Scott McLeod on Defence. It's the one aspect of the team which seems to be working well.
EDIT: To be fair, they get loads of practice...
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@victor-meldrew
brad mooar is the one to go -
Steeling myself for rewatch of second half (can only face 40 minutes).
We have consistently been struggling in breakdowns this year.
Can blame cleaners but carriers need to run with support in mind, rather than get isolated. One would expect coaches to have drummed that in.
Not sure our loosie balance is right. Need one fetcher, one basher and one roamer, but who needs some size. I'd see Cane/Bladder and Paps being in the first category, Akira and Frizell in second and Jacobson/Sotutu in latter. Savea is wonderful player, but doesn't quite fit the mould in any of the positions. He'd be on the bench if I were selecting for French.
I think Tuapea has best head on him of three (fit) candidates for midfield. I'd be inclined to start with Havili at 12, outside Richie (assume BB forced out), with Quinn at 13. Rieko at wing, but option to move in.
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@victor-meldrew I get that but rugby has always been a game where success starts up front. Fix that then see what we have. I agree that we shouldn’t be kicking the ball away as much, the kicking is poor and atrocious passing and decision making. Our forwards have to own the game instead of being tackling bags. How about our forwards show us 2 minutes of sustained retention of the ball and see how that changes the opposition defensive patterns. Our backs might just have more space. They had nothing really on Saturday.
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Victor Meldrewreplied to broughie on 15 Nov 2021, 18:37 last edited by Victor Meldrew 15 Nov 2021, 18:39
It's chicken and egg. The forwards can't operate the game plan(?) if the backs are screwing up ball retention. If I read Foster correctly, he's saying the forwards can retain possession for as long as we want, but if the backs cough it up and screw the forwards attack plans, it screws everything.
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@victor-meldrew I get your drift but I’ll take a dominant forward pack any day.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
It's chicken and egg. The forwards can't operate the game plan(?) if the backs are screwing up ball retention. If I read Foster correctly, he's saying the forwards can retain possession for as long as we want, but if the backs cough it up and screw the forwards attack plans, it screws everything.
Don't give it to the backs. Play off 9. Simples 😁
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@dagrubster said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
He backed Rennie didn’t he?
Henry didn't back Rennie, he was never in the picture, he was in agreement with Aus from 6 months before the job came up. Henry just said NZR should of tried to keep Rennie etc in NZ rugby fold. Same as Joseph (who I keen on) were already tied up. Only one other person actually stood , that was Razor Robertson, ironically a bloody good coach of a good team , but one that ironically has same amount of losses this year to ABs with similar amount of games. I not into who should or shouldn't be coach, as I not really sure how good or bad any of coaches are, as I really personally haven't been involved in the teams (unfortunately )
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@bones said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders no sarcasm. It'll be amazing how much easier it is to get the team moving forward when the team are actually being passed to.
Yep but chicken and egg thing remains in some cases, it certainly a lot easier for forwards to win phase ball etc if the ball is in front of them. Sometimes we see the ball passed too much behind the advantage line, and as most people will realise the advantage line , and crossing it is almost evrything in rugby, only was to get flow going.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I'd stick with Scott McLeod on Defence. It's the one aspect of the team which seems to be working well.
EDIT: To be fair, they get loads of practice...
The scramble defence is good but our line gets opened up far too easily and we are still relatively passive.
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@dan54 Give Rennie time. Remember his team beat the Boks twice, it’s his first year coaching an international team unlike Foster and is their depth better than ours?
Well in that case, If he doesn't win the RC or Bledisloe next year, Oz should dump him and he be kept as far way from the ABs as possible as he's obviously just as useless a coach as Foster.....
I mean, it's just logical, innit?
....
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@bones said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders no sarcasm. It'll be amazing how much easier it is to get the team moving forward when the team are actually being passed to.
It's a big part of the problem, for sure. TJP just isn't cutting for me - particularly in the starting line-up
Christie has stepped up and doesn't look out of place at Test level and I'd like to see him & Weber get more game time.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders no sarcasm. It'll be amazing how much easier it is to get the team moving forward when the team are actually being passed to.
It's a big part of the problem, for sure. TJP just isn't cutting for me - particularly in the starting line-up
Christie has stepped up and doesn't look out of place at Test level and I'd like to see him & Weber get more game time.
NZR are apparently pulling out all stops to get Fakatava's eligibility sorted. That indicates to me that they aren't convinced at all on the current options below Smith.
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Victor Meldrewreplied to Crucial on 15 Nov 2021, 20:19 last edited by Victor Meldrew 15 Nov 2021, 20:55
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
NZR are apparently pulling out all stops to get Fakatava's eligibility sorted
Don't believe it - indicates forward thinking....
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@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@dan54 Give Rennie time. Remember his team beat the Boks twice, it’s his first year coaching an international team unlike Foster and is their depth better than ours?
didnt rennie get appointed last year? ie this is his second year
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/59292633.amp
I thought Sexton went off for a HIA assessment on Saturday? Brains must be in his lower body 😜
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@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders no sarcasm. It'll be amazing how much easier it is to get the team moving forward when the team are actually being passed to.
It's a big part of the problem, for sure. TJP just isn't cutting for me - particularly in the starting line-up
Christie has stepped up and doesn't look out of place at Test level and I'd like to see him & Weber get more game time.
NZR are apparently pulling out all stops to get Fakatava's eligibility sorted. That indicates to me that they aren't convinced at all on the current options below Smith.
Rupeni part 2….
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@broughie said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@dan54 Give Rennie time. Remember his team beat the Boks twice, it’s his first year coaching an international team unlike Foster and is their depth better than ours?
didnt rennie get appointed last year? ie this is his second year
He was appointed in late 2019 after the Wallabies EOYT ahead of the 2020 season.
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@act-crusader and its 2021 isn't it? so hes had 2020 and 2021...admittedly a couple of pretty messed up seasons
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@bones said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stodders no sarcasm. It'll be amazing how much easier it is to get the team moving forward when the team are actually being passed to.
It's a big part of the problem, for sure. TJP just isn't cutting for me - particularly in the starting line-up
Christie has stepped up and doesn't look out of place at Test level and I'd like to see him & Weber get more game time.
NZR are apparently pulling out all stops to get Fakatava's eligibility sorted. That indicates to me that they aren't convinced at all on the current options below Smith.
Rupeni part 2….
An anomaly with eligibility laws at this particular moment in time. If he wasn't injured he'd be an AB now, but because he's injured he has to wait extra time.
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This site has some deep stats for the game, and others up north.
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taniwharugbyreplied to Machpants on 16 Nov 2021, 00:55 last edited by taniwharugby 16 Nov 2021, 00:56
@machpants Irish missed more tackles than us, despite us having to make twice as many.
TBH I think plenty of those stats are not surprising, when you look at some of our matches over the years, but we kicked away twice as much and passed half as much, Rucks won - Ireland 132, NZ 57
We had twice as many linebreaks and more off loads, yet alot was ineffective.
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Jesus, they're living in their own dream world confirmation bubble. Don't expect any real growth in the ABs until post world cup
Prop Joe Moody backed the side's game plan for the Ireland test, saying that they just failed to take the right options at key times.
"Watching the review this morning, we're still creating the opportunities, we're just - at that final hurdle - choosing the wrong option and not quite executing. I don't feel like it's a game plan thing." -
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@machpants Irish missed more tackles than us, despite us having to make twice as many.
TBH I think plenty of those stats are not surprising, when you look at some of our matches over the years, but we kicked away twice as much and passed half as much, Rucks won - Ireland 132, NZ 57
We had twice as many linebreaks and more off loads, yet alot was ineffective.
I guess we generally do more with less ball. Sometimes I'd like to see us grind down an opposition
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@machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Jesus, they're living in their own dream world confirmation bubble. Don't expect any real growth in the ABs until post world cup
Prop Joe Moody backed the side's game plan for the Ireland test, saying that they just failed to take the right options at key times.
"Watching the review this morning, we're still creating the opportunities, we're just - at that final hurdle - choosing the wrong option and not quite executing. I don't feel like it's a game plan thing."I suppose he can’t say much else if they have just come out of a review with the coache’s.They must have lead the way with that stuff in the review and the players have to come out and back it up.
Really he might want to have said the game plan and the coaching staff are shit can we please dump them. As I am sick of listening to their BS.
But that’s not good for the pay packet. -
well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
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taniwharugbyreplied to mariner4life on 16 Nov 2021, 01:39 last edited by taniwharugby 16 Nov 2021, 01:39
@mariner4life when you look at the stats form the article above, which many I dont think vary greatly form previous years good wins, so a couple more chances taken, an ounce of luck and result could have been very different, so I guess there is that glimmer....
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those repeated goal line stands were heroic and almost game saving.
Severely taxing though.
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Chester Drawsreplied to Victor Meldrew on 16 Nov 2021, 01:43 last edited by Chester Draws 16 Nov 2021, 01:44
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mencey said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
I cannot believe that they did not appoint Robertson as coach. The current one just has not got what it take. Look how well Canterbury and the Crusaders have done under him and I do not like either but admire both. Foster never had what it takes. The whole forward pack needs to toughen the fuck up while I am on this rant.
OK. Very fair points. But what if the problems aren't Foster or aren't just Foster? What if we get Robertson in and things don't improve that much? What do we do then?
But they are all down to Foster. So trying to fix them some other way isn't going to work.
Those of us who follow the Chiefs knows how this goes -- there will be some false dawns where improvement appears to happen, followed soon after by ever more awful outcomes. Foster doesn't get better over time, that we know.
The "what happens if Robertson sucks argument" is lame. Do we keep Foster on for the next 50 years, just in case the next guy is worse? Which, in Robertson's case, he definitely isn't.
You're dead right on the mid-field, but we've had 6 years - six fucking years - to sort out some stability which takes into account injuries, and yet our options for the France game are now down to two inexperienced tyros in Ennor & Tupaea, an out-of-form Havili and/or Reiko who's a great wing but lacks goods at 13 at Test level.
When did Foster join the AB set-up. Would it be about six fucking years ago?
That's not all down to Foster (I actually give him credit for at least trying to fix the issue) - that's down to NZRFU taking their eye off the ball on ensuring long-term player development.
Bull. Hansen tried things. The "dual playmaker" gambit didn't work, but he did try something new.
What innovation is Foster delivering to the team? Be specific.
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@chester-draws TBF, IIRC we had 25 tests in a row where we didnt start the same mid-field combo in consecutive games before Nonu-Smith became the encumbants (Mauger, McAlister, Nonu, Smith and were a couple others I think)
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@chester-draws said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mencey said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@victor-meldrew We need someone like Robertson. He knows how to get the best out of players.
I cannot believe that they did not appoint Robertson as coach. The current one just has not got what it take. Look how well Canterbury and the Crusaders have done under him and I do not like either but admire both. Foster never had what it takes. The whole forward pack needs to toughen the fuck up while I am on this rant.
OK. Very fair points. But what if the problems aren't Foster or aren't just Foster? What if we get Robertson in and things don't improve that much? What do we do then?
But they are all down to Foster. So trying to fix them some other way isn't going to work.
Those of us who follow the Chiefs knows how this goes -- there will be some false dawns where improvement appears to happen, followed soon after by ever more awful outcomes. Foster doesn't get better over time, that we know.
The "what happens if Robertson sucks argument" is lame. Do we keep Foster on for the next 50 years, just in case the next guy is worse? Which, in Robertson's case, he definitely isn't.
You're dead right on the mid-field, but we've had 6 years - six fucking years - to sort out some stability which takes into account injuries, and yet our options for the France game are now down to two inexperienced tyros in Ennor & Tupaea, an out-of-form Havili and/or Reiko who's a great wing but lacks goods at 13 at Test level.
When did Foster join the AB set-up. Would it be about six fucking years ago?
That's not all down to Foster (I actually give him credit for at least trying to fix the issue) - that's down to NZRFU taking their eye off the ball on ensuring long-term player development.
Bull. Hansen tried things. The "dual playmaker" gambit didn't work, but he did try something new.
What innovation is Foster delivering to the team? Be specific.
Foster has been in the ABs coaching set up for 9 years he started in 2012
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
well, to be fair, we were one very slight decision away from winning the game. Despite getting flogged in every single metric. So he sorta has a point
The counterpoint is we've heard this tune before.
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