All Blacks vs Springboks II
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Cant get away from the fact the Bok forwards were just better They deserved to win Regrettably some of our forwards dont have a McCaw motor
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@berniescorner said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Cant get away from the fact the Bok forwards were just better They deserved to win Regrettably some of our forwards dont have a McCaw motor
I think the selections of Bower and Aumua were a mistake. Karl T is easily our second best scrumaging loosehad and Samisoni Taukei'aho is our form hooker atm, and is a better lineout thrower than Aumua.
We had to know that our weaker props were going to come up against their strongest front row in the 2nd half and the gap in class was evident between the two front rows during that period. Should have selected the best players available, last night was not a time for experimentation and we have paid the price for it.
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@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
I don't like having a go at the match officials, and fair play to Carling for having the guts to whistle penalties at the end, but there bad calls both ways. The worst for mine though was Mpimpi being a good few metres offside on the kick chase, not spotted by anyone.
I was yelling at the TV then. It wasn't even close and the AR was right there.
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@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Rewatch 36 to 66.
ABs lineout better than Boks's in period!!!! Only miss Aumua throwing directly to Kitshoff and not to Patty T. BBBR jumping forced Bok miss at 36. Akira pressure another at 48. Akira took several in meantime (and beautiful one for Savea try).
Scrum slightly moving forward except first of H2, following Jordie (non-) forward pass. Bok TH twisted, which ref ruled Moody infringement. Wrong side for camera. Props looked bemused.
Ref's inconsisitency on tackle release directly caused the result. Not just BB at 38 (Faf never released), but also at 54:30 followng a period of AB pressure, when Etzebeth held on to Jordie and Marx given penalty. Huge swing.
Even worse, in next minute Kitshoff was about to be turned over 5m out from AB line and ABs penalised for... 'no clear release'!!! Led to penalty dead in front and 3.
At 50 Steyn 50/22 MASSIVE. Good LO/maul/momentum. Poor short side defence and Boks over. Also huge Steyn kick gain at 58.
Perhaps most damning, though, from 46 to 48 ABs hot on attack. Several recyclings but pattern of ball to BB and then Havili not aligned for backline move. BBBR couple of time gets pass with nowhere to go.
BUT NO OTHER TIGHTIES TO BE SEEN. FFS LJ and BB trying to bind and defend counter ruck???
Also at 66 RM gets ball but Bok fish hook cuts him off from rest of backline. Shepherded into pod of e.g. Marx/Kwagga/a lock.
Our backline alignment/interplay with forwards was non-existent?! And Boks had done homework.
Forwards always in wrong place and unavailable for cleanout. Was there no plan?
TBC...
That no clear release made me lose my shit. He'd suddenly discovered that law after just ignoring it minutes before.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Rewatch 36 to 66.
ABs lineout better than Boks's in period!!!! Only miss Aumua throwing directly to Kitshoff and not to Patty T. BBBR jumping forced Bok miss at 36. Akira pressure another at 48. Akira took several in meantime (and beautiful one for Savea try).
Scrum slightly moving forward except first of H2, following Jordie (non-) forward pass. Bok TH twisted, which ref ruled Moody infringement. Wrong side for camera. Props looked bemused.
Ref's inconsisitency on tackle release directly caused the result. Not just BB at 38 (Faf never released), but also at 54:30 followng a period of AB pressure, when Etzebeth held on to Jordie and Marx given penalty. Huge swing.
Even worse, in next minute Kitshoff was about to be turned over 5m out from AB line and ABs penalised for... 'no clear release'!!! Led to penalty dead in front and 3.
At 50 Steyn 50/22 MASSIVE. Good LO/maul/momentum. Poor short side defence and Boks over. Also huge Steyn kick gain at 58.
Perhaps most damning, though, from 46 to 48 ABs hot on attack. Several recyclings but pattern of ball to BB and then Havili not aligned for backline move. BBBR couple of time gets pass with nowhere to go.
BUT NO OTHER TIGHTIES TO BE SEEN. FFS LJ and BB trying to bind and defend counter ruck???
Also at 66 RM gets ball but Bok fish hook cuts him off from rest of backline. Shepherded into pod of e.g. Marx/Kwagga/a lock.
Our backline alignment/interplay with forwards was non-existent?! And Boks had done homework.
Forwards always in wrong place and unavailable for cleanout. Was there no plan?
TBC...
That no clear release made me lose my shit. He'd suddenly discovered that law after just ignoring it minutes before.
Me, too!
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@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
As an aside that SA medic is lovely. If I were a bok I’d be sure to have a permanent groin niggle that needed attending to
beforeduring the big match.What is this before you speak of?
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@berniescorner said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Cant get away from the fact the Bok forwards were just better They deserved to win Regrettably some of our forwards dont have a McCaw motor
I know he got around a lot but there was only ever one McCaw in the All Blacks. In twenty years time or so hopefully it is a different story (somebody hide Gemma's hockey sticks)..
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I must have watched the final stages about 20 times by now and noticed this: Following the SA kick off, once the scrum is awarded, Richie clearly instructs Asafo to take an injury break so they can have a strategy meeting. Rieko’s body language gives it away as does Asafo when he looks at Brodie as he does it. The medic comes on initially and chats to Asafo but this is obviously just part of the drill. A few seconds later the second medic comes on and pretends to be looking in his bag. At this point medic #1 walks over to the strategy meeting at which point Ardie is offering instructions so he just hangs on the outside and then after a few camera cuts and second passed is then seen talking with Brodie.
So the ABs just the same as the Boks doing it in the first half soooo obviously after a line break when the crowd weren’t having it.
And on those 2 carries after the scrum - now I maybe miles off here, so please fill me in - why attempt to win the contact? Why not just go sideways or backwards?
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
That no clear release made me lose my shit.
You have a point, and a right to feel aggrieved, but that line above just looks darn funny to me.
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End of the day , the loss is probably a reality check of where we are at ,
A narrow win may have papered over the cracks
Still plenty to work on
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Another thing that I don't think has been mentioned yet is how easy it is for teams to pin us in our own half following kick off. This has been a problem for a few years now. Last night the Boks were superb at it. Kick long and high to give the chasers time to get in a defensive position. Then stop the ensuing maul, smash our one off hit up and pressure the subsequent kick. We end up defending a lineout between our 22 and 10 metre line if we are lucky.
We miss a long punting game, especially at 10.
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@crazy-horse True, and it's because we are sticking to the conventional method of having the 10 kick it out. BB doesn't have the biggest punt and neither does Richie. Why not utilise Havili's boot or Jordie's?
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@akan004 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@crazy-horse True, and it's because we are sticking to the conventional method of having the 10 kick it out. BB doesn't have the biggest punt and neither does Richie. Why not utilise Havili's boot or Jordie's?
Jordie has had problems with having his kicked charged hasn't he? Agree, he does have a bigger kick though.
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DISCLAIMER: have only watched the game once
I thought i was a cracker, particuarly the first half.@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
How is it the Wallabies can put the Boks to the sword?
Well you can talk about the Boks "lifting" for the ABs
I guess, as a few others have done.I think first in favour of the Boks it was selection: they've played mostly the same players all tour, particularly the spine of the side, and they finally clicked in terms of lowering their error rate - that's the first key in beating the ABs. By contrast, the ABs are missing a few of their best and that hurts them in the pivot - Aaron Smith probably adds 5% to any team he's playing in.
Second point was Kwagga Smith. That guy changed the dynamic of the back row battle significantly, and gave the Boks a ruck presence they didn't have against the Wallabies. They learned from having the 2 Pommy refs against us that they needed more at ruck time in addition to Kolisi. Kwagga was MOTM for me in both games. Against us, the Boks played Mostert instead, and tried to out-do us physically, but that didn't happen because their fitness led to poor discipline.
But it must be said the main difference is game plan. Someone said on Twitter last night that the Trinations were a bit of rock/paper/scissors and to a degree, that's true.
ABs haven't changed in several years - the aim of the game is being fitter than everyone, and racking up turnover runaway tries. "You miss I hit" being the basic premise.
From where I'm sitting, they are not actually creating much except opposition mistakes to run at a fractured line, and fitness to keep doing that all game. Once the turnovers dry up, or you get the ball against a set line with a high percentage tackle success, things get sticky.
When this happens, the AB back line doesn't appear to run anything like a complex move or any subtletly with bodies in motion. They just expect something to happen.
The Boks kick it, the ABs run it back against a set line, with a structure you'd basically teach to juniors - space out, run straight, support each other at the ruck. Rarely any changes of angle or dummy runners. I can't even remember a decent cut-out pass that found the man because the Boks were just rushing it so easily.
If you're going to run wide, run from depth. So many times it appeared an AB player got the ball with little chance to run onto it at pace and make a directional change at the same time. In the first Boks v Wallabies, Kellaways' try came because FdK rushed a deeply-set Kerevi and he shifted subtly to avoid it - suddenly there is space, and that was the 5th phase after the lineout.
So you could say the Boks have the right game plan for the ABs.
The Wallabies have the right game plan for the Boks.
The ABs have the right game plan for the Wallabies. -
I'd also add that Neinaber's move to replace his front row just before halftime was good coaching. Firstly, none of those starting guys are fit enough to play Test Rugby, and weren't contributing except at set piece.
Secondly, when you look at the way the ABs have lost their cohesion late in the game when subs come on, it meant his fitter front rowers could have more impact on the game at set piece and around the park.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Shit tactics. Didn't adjust to their ruck tactics.
Very poor captain selection.
No real game plan worse than last week,we learnt nothing.
I blame TJP and Mo'unga at the end. Pick and goes are always 50/50.
Mo'unga really struggles against teams like the Boks and England who are super physical on defense. He got smashed when he came on and hardly featured after that.
I thought Beauden (cross kick in the 2nd half aside) showed why he is our best 10 tonight. Mounga always struggles when his pack is getting beaten. Beauden did good stuff in-spite of a struggling pack.
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From the scrum in the 78th, the ABs had no excuse not to win that game. A couple of pretty sloppy mistakes let the Boks have it.
That said, I cant remember the last time I saw a team successfully play out the last 90 seconds of a game with one-out forward hit ups. The refs are so thirsty for a penalty in those moments, and they find one 90% of the time.
I wonder if it might be better to grubber the ball into touch 30m out. Yes you give it back to them but it's much harder for them to score from there than 20m out.
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@bobily2 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
We need a specialist lineout coach, no matter what it costs. Frustrating to see the same weakness 5 games in a row.
no, just need Sam W. back. He has shown he is our first choice lock for the big games. Any other combo can play that lesser lights. But Sam is a must against SA, Eng.
