Openside flankers
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@mn5 said in Openside flankers:
Liam Barry
I can't believe i had to scroll halfway down this thread before someone finally mentioned Liam Barry. He was as good as any of the blokes on the 'unlucky to be around when we had another gun' list and could have played a lot of tests otherwise. I think he debuted against France on the EOYT in 1995 and impressed immediately. But I don't remember what happened after that for his career to fizzle out rather quickly? By the SA tour the next year he'd been overtaken by Andrew Blowers I think, and I don't even recall him playing much if any SR?
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@mariner4life said in Openside flankers:
@taniwharugby said in Openside flankers:
@mariner4life I remember the 2005 Lions tour, and I was playing Fantasy Rugby where you picked players, I always had a Kiwi 7 in each of the games...Herring, Bradnock etc they all raked in loads of points I finished 3rd in the whole wide world for that one...
@Duluth and he had heart valve issues too!
I'll always remember the Planet Rugby awards for the 2005 Lions tour and they gave Nili Latu the Provincial Player of the tour as he set the scene for every team the Lions played having a gun 7 to overcome
Who did Manawatu have lighting it up in their 100 point drubbing?
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@bovidae said in Openside flankers:
@gt12 In the professional era the Cantabs will probably say Angus Gardiner.
Rated by MANY former Crusaders as the unluckiest team mate not to have worn the black jersey.
There was also a chap called Greg Smith who he duelled with at Canterbury for a year or two in much the same fashion as the Hammett vs Sexton battle. Smith was possibly even better.
Anyone mentioned Dallas Seymour??
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@shark said in Openside flankers:
@mariner4life said in Openside flankers:
@taniwharugby said in Openside flankers:
@mariner4life I remember the 2005 Lions tour, and I was playing Fantasy Rugby where you picked players, I always had a Kiwi 7 in each of the games...Herring, Bradnock etc they all raked in loads of points I finished 3rd in the whole wide world for that one...
@Duluth and he had heart valve issues too!
I'll always remember the Planet Rugby awards for the 2005 Lions tour and they gave Nili Latu the Provincial Player of the tour as he set the scene for every team the Lions played having a gun 7 to overcome
Who did Manawatu have lighting it up in their 100 point drubbing?
Josh Bradnock as TR mentioned. He wasn't in the same class as others 7s that were prominent in that tour but still gave a very good account of himself.
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@shark said in Openside flankers:
@mn5 said in Openside flankers:
Liam Barry
I can't believe i had to scroll halfway down this thread before someone finally mentioned Liam Barry. He was as good as any of the blokes on the 'unlucky to be around when we had another gun' list and could have played a lot of tests otherwise. I think he debuted against France on the EOYT in 1995 and impressed immediately.
Barry debuted on the 1993 EOYT. You may remember the controversy with Mains.
On his first tour with the All Blacks Liam Barry became the innocent participant in a major controversy. Coach Laurie Mains brought Mike Brewer into his squad for the latter part of the tour even though he had been originally unavailable for business reasons and was in Britain at the time for that purpose. When Brewer was brought in as a reserve for the international against England and especially when he took the field as a replacement against the Barbarians in the tour finale it caused a storm of protest, especially in New Zealand. This was because he had been preferrred to official selections in the team in Barry and also John Mitchell.
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@shark When Hart chose the 96 squad to tour SA he said Barry was the unluckiest not to have been chosen. I suspect Ginge Henderson got the nod for his leadership abilities given it was a proper tour with mid week games.
Barry then got injured and didn't play again that year. Saw the writing on the wall, fucked off to Japan for 5 years. Came back in 2001 and got injured again so finished his playing career back in the less physical Japanese league
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Interestingly, on Barry, I had in mind that he was mainly a 6 - but, his AB profile says....
Barry, though tall and rangy and not as closely built to the ground as some other specialists such as his contemporary Josh Kronfeld, played for much of his career as an openside flanker.
And a quick glance indicates he played all but one of his AB games as a 7.
But, he was apparently 1.94 metres tall, which you'd have thought would have seen him instantly on the blindside - especially in those days.
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@chimoaus said in Openside flankers:
Bugger missed the quiz, great list and I appreciate the time putting it together, would be great to get another quiz/thread going for another position perhaps.
I’m pretty sure I’ve done the research on the last 30 ABs to play hooker. I’ll try and dig it up.
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@chris-b said in Openside flankers:
Interestingly, on Barry, I had in mind that he was mainly a 6 - but, his AB profile says....
Barry, though tall and rangy and not as closely built to the ground as some other specialists such as his contemporary Josh Kronfeld, played for much of his career as an openside flanker.
And a quick glance indicates he played all but one of his AB games as a 7.
But, he was apparently 1.94 metres tall, which you'd have thought would have seen him instantly on the blindside - especially in those days.
Well, according to you everyone was a midget back then
My only memory of Liam Barry was on the news being interviewed cos he Dad and Granddad were All Blacks. No pressure on any kids he may have had then !
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Doing a little bit of research of guys who pre-date my rugby watching - I think Graham Williams might have been our first genuine openside flanker. It would be interesting to know whether they set up as blindside and openside with him (or others).
After him, they went back to pairs of bigger tight pairings for a couple of years with Kirkpatrick paired with people like Tom Lister and Grizz.
Then Alan McNaughton is actually listed as an openside - but in his three tests played in 6 twice and 7 once - maybe indicating that the players knew what they were doing, but not the guys handing out the jerseys. They picked him for three 1971 Lions tests hoping his speed off the back of the lineout would pressure Barry John.
A bit later, it seems Alistair Scown was probably pretty mobile, but still pretty big - probably a proper openside.
And then Ken Stewart.
Other opensides not yet mentioned (I think), Geoff Hines and Stu Cron.
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@chris-b said in Openside flankers:
@dogmeat I should get those right actually, because 1970 was the first series I started paying attention.
So, you curmudgeonly old bugger - when did we first switch from left and right flankers?
I’m not as old as you, but growing up my dad always referred to them as breakaway
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@act-crusader I think Terry Mclean called them breakaways in his books in the 1950s, but by the 1960s they were flankers.
I can still remember people calling them breakaways.
I just found this quote from McLean from the 1963/64 tour - which is probably where my OP originated from....(he was talking about the trio of Tremain, Nathan and Graham being slightly unbalanced - none of them proper number 8s).
"Perhaps the answer might have been the adoption of the British concept of openside and blindside specialists. The "Egghead Committee" believed that this was sound and I had a notion that they would have liked to adopt it. ....The prime insoluble difficulty was that Graham had packed for so long on the one shoulder that he could not adjust to the other. In effect this put the kybosh on the adoption of the British concept, for it was unthinkable that Graham should be stood down."
But, he does say that, "France B fought so staunchly and well in the second half that after a time Whineray posted Nathan to the open flank , from which his strenuous running soon began to wreak panic-station defence among the Frenchmen". That sounds like an offensive rather than defensive ploy - and Graham was probably more the guy who played what we'd mostly recognise as the openside role among that trio - but, that's me quibbling.
In 1964, Australia toured - Graham played No. 8 in the 3 tests and a guy called Don Clarke was paired with Tremain - so he's a candidate, as well. As is Red Conway in 1965.
