All Blacks vs Fiji 2
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hope ALB is fit - he's our one really experienced player in midfield.
If h isn’t we get Roane again. Great for his development but if he isn’t the answer in 13 then it’s another lost opportunity.
I know he sees himself as a centre now but under this gameplan so is Bridge. Roane brings the wing/centre role a bit more wing and centre.One key question for me is who are your centres likely to be in two years time at the RWC? For me, that's likely to be ALB, RIoane, and probably JG. Havili if he stays there. Savea (or Messam) if we want to make a joke
Tupaea a real possibility. This far out though, aside from ALB, you're lookign at the attributes to see who could build to a higher level.Rieko has potential because of his pace. Tana managed the shift, and became seriously good there. Rieko could get there, and is stepping up year on year. Can't see Bridge in tha tmix unless he starts playing there consistently
This is the thing. We look at Tana having successfully done it but has anyone else? Tana displayed a pretty insane skill set already as a winger but I don’t see that from Reiko. At least not yet. I hope I’m proven wrong but I just don’t see him as being a top class 13.
I've said it before but I really wanted Rieko to stay on the wing for a couple more years. Right now him playing 13 weakens the team as we don't have a world class left wing to replace him out there. Whereas we have loads of players vying for the 13 jersey.
Totally agree but I guess it all comes down to what he’s being told. If he’s being told that Bridge is a lock until the end of time then I guess that explains his decision to go for 13. Which is crazy because when in form he’s the best winger in the country by a he he country mile.
He is a very good winger, but this coaching set up seems to like hybrid 14/15s. It's been a while, but from what I recall Raone doesn't play that way.
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@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Hope ALB is fit - he's our one really experienced player in midfield.
If h isn’t we get Roane again. Great for his development but if he isn’t the answer in 13 then it’s another lost opportunity.
I know he sees himself as a centre now but under this gameplan so is Bridge. Roane brings the wing/centre role a bit more wing and centre.One key question for me is who are your centres likely to be in two years time at the RWC? For me, that's likely to be ALB, RIoane, and probably JG. Havili if he stays there. Savea (or Messam) if we want to make a joke
Tupaea a real possibility. This far out though, aside from ALB, you're lookign at the attributes to see who could build to a higher level.Rieko has potential because of his pace. Tana managed the shift, and became seriously good there. Rieko could get there, and is stepping up year on year. Can't see Bridge in tha tmix unless he starts playing there consistently
This is the thing. We look at Tana having successfully done it but has anyone else? Tana displayed a pretty insane skill set already as a winger but I don’t see that from Reiko. At least not yet. I hope I’m proven wrong but I just don’t see him as being a top class 13.
I've said it before but I really wanted Rieko to stay on the wing for a couple more years. Right now him playing 13 weakens the team as we don't have a world class left wing to replace him out there. Whereas we have loads of players vying for the 13 jersey.
Totally agree but I guess it all comes down to what he’s being told. If he’s being told that Bridge is a lock until the end of time then I guess that explains his decision to go for 13. Which is crazy because when in form he’s the best winger in the country by a he he country mile.
He is a very good winger, but this coaching set up seems to like hybrid 14/15s. It's been a while, but from what I recall Raone doesn't play that way.
Clarke doesn’t strike me as a hybrid 14/15. I reckon Raone could slot into 15 a lot better than 13.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I reckon Raone could slot into 15 a lot better than 13
His kicking game is miles away from fullback level
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@duluth said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I reckon Raone could slot into 15 a lot better than 13
His kicking game is miles away from fullback level
I’ve don’t think I’ve ever seen him kick. Is he really that bad? You can also say that his passing game is miles away from 13 level. Or at least the skills required there.
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Ok enough for a wings kicking skills
Discussion about his passing has an element of confirmation bias. I can't find this years numbers but if anything he would've improved. He seems to have a reputation of running himself and not setting up team mates. It's just not true. He's still a work in progress but he is close
Across all Super Rugby in 2020, in 889 minutes played he provided 5 scoring passes to teammates and 1 penultimate pass in a scoring sequence for a rate of 0.5 primary and secondary try assists per 80 minutes; in 928 minutes in 2021, he has contributed 5 and 2 respectively for a rate of 0.6 per 80. It’s true that this is only a slight uptick in performance, but it’s worth emphasising that he still blows his competitors for the black 13 jersey out of the water by this metric overall: his average of 0.6 primary and secondary assists per 80 across the last 2 seasons is much higher than Lienert-Brown’s (0.2) and Braydon Ennor’s (0.3). -
@Duluth I think Rieko has the tools to be right up there in the world as a centre. I just think he still had loads of tries left in him on the wing while still young, and the ABs have a glaring hole in that position at the moment. Clarke is our best bet there at the moment but he's off to play 7s and then needs to have a good season at SR level to get his confidence/form back to where it was.
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@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@Duluth I think Rieko has the tools to be right up there in the world as a centre. I just think he still had loads of tries left in him on the wing while still young, and the ABs have a glaring hole in that position at the moment. Clarke is our best bet there at the moment but he's off to play 7s and then needs to have a good season at SR level to get his confidence/form back to where it was.
Well Clarke is not actually playing 7s as he is a travelling reserve, he didn't make the playing squad.
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@duluth said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
Ok enough for a wings kicking skills
Discussion about his passing has an element of confirmation bias. I can't find this years numbers but if anything he would've improved. He seems to have a reputation of running himself and not setting up team mates. It's just not true. He's still a work in progress but he is close
Across all Super Rugby in 2020, in 889 minutes played he provided 5 scoring passes to teammates and 1 penultimate pass in a scoring sequence for a rate of 0.5 primary and secondary try assists per 80 minutes; in 928 minutes in 2021, he has contributed 5 and 2 respectively for a rate of 0.6 per 80. It’s true that this is only a slight uptick in performance, but it’s worth emphasising that he still blows his competitors for the black 13 jersey out of the water by this metric overall: his average of 0.6 primary and secondary assists per 80 across the last 2 seasons is much higher than Lienert-Brown’s (0.2) and Braydon Ennor’s (0.3).Well you’d hope he’s better than Ennor! At the end of day you can only see what’s in front of you. I clearly see Goodhue and ALB as test ready 13s while Reiko is very much a work in progress and may always be. On the other hand he’s a farking good winger…
At the end of the day I think he’ll always be a much better winger than centre but I’ll be happy to be proven wrong.
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I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
The same was also said about Caleb Ralph.
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
His first season was 2003 wasn’t it? He was definitely a 13 for the bulk of it and was selected there for the ABs.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
His first season was 2003 wasn’t it? He was definitely a 13 for the bulk of it and was selected there for the ABs.
Yeah 2003. I just seem to remember him coming on as a reserve for the ABs a few times and playing wing. I can't be bothered digging deep enough to confirm or deny
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
He debuted in the England loss in Wellington at 13 outside Tana. I know because I was there when Justin Marshall looked the wrong way.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:
I should imagine we said the same about Tana and Ma'a.
Who said Ma’a would be a better winger? Was it Winger?
If we go back to 2005, when I first joined, I think there was still some discussion about Ma'a being better on the wing because he couldn't distribute, and I imagine that such discussions would have been happening beforehand (like 2003).
Can’t recall that. A lot of talk about how shit he apparently was and maybe even how he should got to league. At the end of the day, he broke through as a 13 and was selected as a 13 for the ABs. He didn’t have a breakthrough season at wing then get shifted to 13.
His first season for the Canes was at wing. I recall bumping into him that season on Courtnay Place and having had a few told him he would be an AB that season. IIRC he made the ABs as a wing/utility first but rarely played. Wiki says he debuted at centre so that shows how good my memory is
He played in the England loss in Wellington at 13 outside Tana. I know because I was there when Justin Marshall looked the wrong way.
I was at that game. Caleb Ralph was average and our scrum couldn't push back a 7 man English pack
Late bloomer
