All Blacks 2021
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 '"He was quite a step above both Mitch [Mitchell] and Gatty [Gatland] at that particular time, from my experiences.'
That's hardly a glowing endorsement.
The contracting issue is a fair point, but none of which addresses the fact we're playing yesterday's gameplan.
Mate read my post, it's Plumtree's opinion only, though I suspect he has more experience than you and I.
I see you have conveniently missed the fact he has said the best he has worked with, and that includes Schmidt and Joseph I believe, but you have cherry picked Gatland and Mitchell to prove a point? Neither who I am a particular fan of, but both have pretty good resumes'
My quote of Duane Monkley comes from the stuff article. And neither Mitch nor Gats strike me as tactically gifted.
Plumtree's quote is about culture.
Perhaps read your own post.
Mate the article from Duane Monkley is one I read where he said Fozzie was a good coach, maybe there were 2.
And out of interest Plumtree says;
All Blacks assistant coach John Plumtree has labelled All Blacks boss Ian Foster as the “best” head coach he has ever worked with.
Perhaps you should read it. I not saying he right or wrong, but that is what Plumtree say!
This is Duane Monkely's write up, perhaps you should read it all, he seems pretty positive about him. I appreciate you don't consider Mitch or Gats as tactically gifted, but Gats has had a fair bit of success and I not sure how qualified to decide about coaches ability compared to Monkelys etc.
But regardless mate I respect your opinion too, just know it is that an opinion by someone who I have no idea how much more you know than me or anyone else. -
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 '"He was quite a step above both Mitch [Mitchell] and Gatty [Gatland] at that particular time, from my experiences.'
That's hardly a glowing endorsement.
The contracting issue is a fair point, but none of which addresses the fact we're playing yesterday's gameplan.
Mate read my post, it's Plumtree's opinion only, though I suspect he has more experience than you and I.
I see you have conveniently missed the fact he has said the best he has worked with, and that includes Schmidt and Joseph I believe, but you have cherry picked Gatland and Mitchell to prove a point? Neither who I am a particular fan of, but both have pretty good resumes'
My quote of Duane Monkley comes from the stuff article. And neither Mitch nor Gats strike me as tactically gifted.
Plumtree's quote is about culture.
Perhaps read your own post.
Mate the article from Duane Monkley is one I read where he said Fozzie was a good coach, maybe there were 2.
And out of interest Plumtree says;
All Blacks assistant coach John Plumtree has labelled All Blacks boss Ian Foster as the “best” head coach he has ever worked with.
Perhaps you should read it. I not saying he right or wrong, but that is what Plumtree say!
This is Duane Monkely's write up, perhaps you should read it all, he seems pretty positive about him. I appreciate you don't consider Mitch or Gats as tactically gifted, but Gats has had a fair bit of success and I not sure how qualified to decide about coaches ability compared to Monkelys etc.
But regardless mate I respect your opinion too, just know it is that an opinion by someone who I have no idea how much more you know than me or anyone else.Reckon you can get a good gauge of how good a coach is by listening to what they say in interviews to hear if they have good rugby sense or not - Foster & Plumtree don't have much at all to offer... but if you listen to blokes like Brown, Razer, Boyd, Joseph & Schmidt there's a big step up in rugby nous compared to the other two.
Foster was an average head coach for the Chiefs... when Rennie replaced him there was a big improvement straightaway, in his first year the Chiefs won the Super Rugby title, then won the Comp again the following year.
Plumtree was also an average head coach for my Canes team... really rated Boyd, he was at the Canes for four years, in that time we made two finals, winning one & making two semi-finals... when Boyd left & Plumtree replaced him the team went downhill.
So in summary why the hell did the NZRU Board think the Foster/Plumtree combo were going to be very good head & assistant AB coaches ? -
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Foster was an average head coach for the Chiefs
My recollection of Chiefs fans' comments differs, I can't remember a single one of them during that time saying Foster was an average, or even approaching average coach.
Then again Marc Hinton said (https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/119529151/all-blacks-coach-ian-foster-my-chiefs-experience-doesnt-define-who-i-am-now)
"It's the elephant in the room in any conversation with new All Blacks coach Ian Foster. Before he was **a wildly successful assistant** to Steve Hansen in the New Zealand setup he once fashioned a far less impressive record in charge of the Chiefs."I wouldn't have written that either, so perhaps my memory is faulty.
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Foster was an average head coach for the Chiefs... when Rennie replaced him there was a big improvement straightaway, in his first year the Chiefs won the Super Rugby title,
Once again think you cherry picking facts mate. You conveniently mange to dodge the fact that the first year Rennie coached the Chiefs , he had the chance to pick such players as Brodie Retallic , Aaron Cruden SBW etc as it was 2012 when the change came in on contracting players outside of the Franchises region. I sure Wayne Smith was of great assistance to Rennie too as he hasn't won a comp since he had him as assistant!
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@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Foster was an average head coach for the Chiefs... when Rennie replaced him there was a big improvement straightaway, in his first year the Chiefs won the Super Rugby title,
Once again think you cherry picking facts mate. You conveniently mange to dodge the fact that the first year Rennie coached the Chiefs , he had the chance to pick such players as Brodie Retallic , Aaron Cruden SBW etc as it was 2012 when the change came in on contracting players outside of the Franchises region. I sure Wayne Smith was of great assistance to Rennie too as he hasn't won a comp since he had him as assistant!
What ? the fact is Rennie has a far more impressive head coaching record at Super Rugby level than Foster - sure Wayne Smith would've been a very good asset for him as an assistant, especially as a defence coach... but it's always the head coach that has the final say about the squad, starting 15 & bench, tactics & when to read from the stand when a player isn't playing well & needs to be replaced etc.
It's pretty obvious the current AB head & assistant coaches are out of their depth, the last two tests are obvious examples of that - we were bloody dreadful in the forwards, so we got completely out played by the Irish & French packs, also our playmakers were just as bad making too many poor decisions... it was bad enough to play an absolute shocker against Ireland, but to not learn from it by repeating the same shite performance against France was unbelievable !!!
If your forwards are not doing the hard yakka & your playmakers are not doing the job either it's up to the coaches to give them a bloody good shake up to get them back on track again.
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Is that a new tactic by the AB coaches against a rushing defence ? ...sounds about right
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you mean here you moan again.
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
you mean here you moan again.
No I mean more sanctimoniousness dribble.
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@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
you mean here you moan again.
No I mean more sanctimoniousness dribble.
If anyone is talking verbal diarrhoea it's you.
You tend to think the sun shines out of Foster... so what has he actually added to the team of any value then ?
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
What ? the fact is Rennie has a far more impressive head coaching record at Super Rugby level than Foster - sure Wayne Smith would've been a very good asset for him as an assistant, especially as a defence coach...
Maybe, but as @kiwi_expat has argued, the connection between success (or not) at Super Rugby level and Test level is pretty tenuous at best.
Here's Rennie's International record
And here's Foster's
but it's always the head coach that has the final say about the squad, starting 15 & bench, tactics & when to read from the stand when a player isn't playing well & needs to be replaced etc.
I completely agree. Which is why I find the idea that the current dip in AB performance, from the time he became Hansen's assistant, is down to Foster a rather silly one
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
you mean here you moan again.
No I mean more sanctimoniousness dribble.
If anyone is talking verbal diarrhoea it's you.
You tend to think the sun shines out of Foster... so what has he actually added to the team of any value then ?
You got the right person? Unless I'm missing something, Chris is not on the Foster bandwagon...
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Foster was an average head coach for the Chiefs... when Rennie replaced him there was a big improvement straightaway, in his first year the Chiefs won the Super Rugby title,
Once again think you cherry picking facts mate. You conveniently mange to dodge the fact that the first year Rennie coached the Chiefs , he had the chance to pick such players as Brodie Retallic , Aaron Cruden SBW etc as it was 2012 when the change came in on contracting players outside of the Franchises region. I sure Wayne Smith was of great assistance to Rennie too as he hasn't won a comp since he had him as assistant!
What ? the fact is Rennie has a far more impressive head coaching record at Super Rugby level than Foster -
Yep well and Foster has a far more impressive record than Rennie at international rugby,(and head to head Foster is well ahead) but that doesn't make Rennie a bad coach in my opinion, I actually like Rennie, but if you want to cerry pick facts it would seem he is not very good.
That is all I say, we can cherry pick facts to make anyone look good or bad, can do the same with any coach, just look at which part of their record that suits our argument. -
@dan54 said in All Blacks 2021:
Yep well and Foster has a far more impressive record than Rennie at international rugby,(and head to head Foster is well ahead)
got to say, how would the results look if they swapped coaches? I'd be very surprised if a Foster-coached Aussie side burgled a single win against at Rennie-coached AB side.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
you mean here you moan again.
No I mean more sanctimoniousness dribble.
If anyone is talking verbal diarrhoea it's you.
You tend to think the sun shines out of Foster... so what has he actually added to the team of any value then ?
You got the right person? Unless I'm missing something, Chris is not on the Foster bandwagon...
You might have missed the fun, I think it could even have been a fern first. @Chris first entered the fray by saying he agreed with @NZbloke, who then promptly replied essentially calling him an idiot or some such. Pure gold.
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
you mean here you moan again.
No I mean more sanctimoniousness dribble.
If anyone is talking verbal diarrhoea it's you.
You tend to think the sun shines out of Foster... so what has he actually added to the team of any value then ?
You got the right person? Unless I'm missing something, Chris is not on the Foster bandwagon...
You might have missed the fun, I think it could even have been a fern first. @Chris first entered the fray by saying he agreed with @NZbloke, who then promptly replied essentially calling him an idiot or some such. Pure gold.
It's like The Ghost of the Baron has appeared.
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@bones said in All Blacks 2021:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
@chris said in All Blacks 2021:
@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
you mean here you moan again.
No I mean more sanctimoniousness dribble.
If anyone is talking verbal diarrhoea it's you.
You tend to think the sun shines out of Foster... so what has he actually added to the team of any value then ?
You got the right person? Unless I'm missing something, Chris is not on the Foster bandwagon...
You might have missed the fun, I think it could even have been a fern first. @Chris first entered the fray by saying he agreed with @NZbloke, who then promptly replied essentially calling him an idiot or some such. Pure gold.
Pretty early in a ferner's time to be posting drunk.... 👍
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@nzbloke said in All Blacks 2021:
Is that a new tactic by the AB coaches against a rushing defence ? ...sounds about right
I am still wondering about your proposed tactics to beat the rush defence please.
