What’s out there at Second Five?
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@kiwiwomble said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@mariner4life said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@nzzp said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@mariner4life said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
In a perfect world i would like two guys in the loosies that can bend the line, a distributor at 12, and someone with genuine pace at 13. I think that provides the best attacking balance.
So ... McCaw, Kaino, Nonu and ... er... not Smith?
yeah okay let's play your game
It's not 2015 any more
But, in 2015 you had Kaino and Read who could get you over the line, Nonu was a very real threat BUT also your distributor. Smith was there for the ride.
Conrad Smith would not be as high on the pantheon if he played his career with ALB or Goodhue at 12.
i actually lean the other way, i dont think Nonu ever played as well as when he had smith outside him. His first stint with the blues and his stint with the Highlanders as good examples
He was stellar for Toulon.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@mn5 said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@mariner4life said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@mn5 said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@no-quarter said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Conrad was no doubt a really positive influence on Nonu, particularly in his early years when he was trying to find his feet, but I absolutely reject the argument that Nonu needed Smith outside him to excel when he was in his prime.
Nonu is the most complete 12 I've ever seen. He was an amazing distributer, vision for his outsides, had a good boot when needed, and was an absolute weapon with ball in hand. He was unreal, Conrad Smith playing outside him had nothing to do with that.
Honestly any 13 outside him would have looked good, and I know Carter is on record saying how much he liked playing inside Nonu.
Forget about his seasons with the Blues and the Landers, he's a Wellington man through and through so was mentally not there for those teams after the absolute farce with Hammett deciding to axe one of the greatest rugby players NZ has ever produced.
Poor old Ma’a just isn’t as revered as he should be. Naysayers will always point out indifferent form for Super Franchises that aren’t the Canes or maybe some dumb fuck off the field behaviour as a youngster. It’s pretty harsh really.
up there with your dumbest comments
Ma'a Nonu is one of the few players universally revered around here.
There are sites other than the fern. I’ve read all sorts of shit abusing him extremely harshly and unnecessarily. I remember one thread on Facebook saying Aaron Mauger was much better because he played for one franchise and was not a “mercenary” as one recent example.
Ah hah! Rumbled @Rancid-Schnitzel
Ah go fook yourself.
Anyway, the best 12 in NZ is JB. Pair him with ALB. Sorted.
Now the more important questions about pretty much the entire pack, the backup 9, 10 and 15....
Have said it before, but nowadays 12s don't pass that often to 13 (at least according to the stats). Arguably that calls out for a big body which can threaten the gain line.
What is then needed is a slick connection between 10 and 13, who runs good lines and can set up his outsides.
On that basis ALB better at 13, and maybe JB would work at 12.
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Oh and Smith wasn't slow.
Bollocks. He made Neemia Tialata look express. I'm a huge Smith (and post-2008 Nonu) fan but Smith was a tortoise.
Ok but yeah he wasn't. Any examples of where he wasn't quick enough? He ran like a lock, but he wasn't slow.
Was skinned by May in 2012.
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@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Oh and Smith wasn't slow.
Bollocks. He made Neemia Tialata look express. I'm a huge Smith (and post-2008 Nonu) fan but Smith was a tortoise.
Ok but yeah he wasn't. Any examples of where he wasn't quick enough? He ran like a lock, but he wasn't slow.
Was skinned by May in 2012.
Good example 🙂
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Oh and Smith wasn't slow.
Bollocks. He made Neemia Tialata look express. I'm a huge Smith (and post-2008 Nonu) fan but Smith was a tortoise.
Ok but yeah he wasn't. Any examples of where he wasn't quick enough? He ran like a lock, but he wasn't slow.
Was skinned by May in 2012.
Good example 🙂
I’d prefer to not have one!
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@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Oh and Smith wasn't slow.
Bollocks. He made Neemia Tialata look express. I'm a huge Smith (and post-2008 Nonu) fan but Smith was a tortoise.
Ok but yeah he wasn't. Any examples of where he wasn't quick enough? He ran like a lock, but he wasn't slow.
Was skinned by May in 2012.
Good example 🙂
I’d prefer to not have one!
You don't think May would skin any other AB centre?
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Oh and Smith wasn't slow.
Bollocks. He made Neemia Tialata look express. I'm a huge Smith (and post-2008 Nonu) fan but Smith was a tortoise.
Ok but yeah he wasn't. Any examples of where he wasn't quick enough? He ran like a lock, but he wasn't slow.
Was skinned by May in 2012.
Good example 🙂
I’d prefer to not have one!
You don't think May would skin any other AB centre?
He’s fast. But think Conrad was slightly out of position, which meant it became a foot race.
Bruce Robertson might still have made the tackle.
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Bruce
The guy out of the Toyota ads? No way
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Bruce
The guy out of the Toyota ads? No way
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@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@rancid-schnitzel said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@mn5 said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@mariner4life said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@mn5 said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@no-quarter said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Conrad was no doubt a really positive influence on Nonu, particularly in his early years when he was trying to find his feet, but I absolutely reject the argument that Nonu needed Smith outside him to excel when he was in his prime.
Nonu is the most complete 12 I've ever seen. He was an amazing distributer, vision for his outsides, had a good boot when needed, and was an absolute weapon with ball in hand. He was unreal, Conrad Smith playing outside him had nothing to do with that.
Honestly any 13 outside him would have looked good, and I know Carter is on record saying how much he liked playing inside Nonu.
Forget about his seasons with the Blues and the Landers, he's a Wellington man through and through so was mentally not there for those teams after the absolute farce with Hammett deciding to axe one of the greatest rugby players NZ has ever produced.
Poor old Ma’a just isn’t as revered as he should be. Naysayers will always point out indifferent form for Super Franchises that aren’t the Canes or maybe some dumb fuck off the field behaviour as a youngster. It’s pretty harsh really.
up there with your dumbest comments
Ma'a Nonu is one of the few players universally revered around here.
There are sites other than the fern. I’ve read all sorts of shit abusing him extremely harshly and unnecessarily. I remember one thread on Facebook saying Aaron Mauger was much better because he played for one franchise and was not a “mercenary” as one recent example.
Ah hah! Rumbled @Rancid-Schnitzel
Ah go fook yourself.
Anyway, the best 12 in NZ is JB. Pair him with ALB. Sorted.
Now the more important questions about pretty much the entire pack, the backup 9, 10 and 15....
Have said it before, but nowadays 12s don't pass that often to 13 (at least according to the stats). Arguably that calls out for a big body which can threaten the gain line.
What is then needed is a slick connection between 10 and 13, who runs good lines and can set up his outsides.
On that basis ALB better at 13, and maybe JB would work at 12.
He has worked at 12. He won Mitre 10 player of the year aged 19 while playing at 12. Obviously doesn’t mean he will smash it in Black but I find it bizarre that he’s not even mentioned in the discussion. At any rate, he’d make a much better 12 than a farking winger.
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@crucial said in Blues 2021:
Highlanders have also found 12 a troublesome position
Not quite true really, Highlanders found an excellent 12 and after finally getting him and his midfield partner into prime form, disappeared them.
Assume you're talking about Walden & Thompson?
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@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Oh and Smith wasn't slow.
Bollocks. He made Neemia Tialata look express. I'm a huge Smith (and post-2008 Nonu) fan but Smith was a tortoise.
Ok but yeah he wasn't. Any examples of where he wasn't quick enough? He ran like a lock, but he wasn't slow.
Was skinned by May in 2012.
Can you tell me somebody who would not get skinned by him?
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@canefan said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@reprobate said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@canefan said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@reprobate it may take us a long time to fill the void of a GOAT conversation MF combo like Snake and Nonu
Yep - Nonu's the one we miss the most out of all those greats I reckon, we have pretty decent quality options in the other positions. I guess it's hard to pick a combo and stick with it so it can develop when you don't have 2 quality players to pick in the first place.
As has been said before, Nonu was far from a consensus pick when he first started. But for one reason or another the coaches stuck with him and Smith and were duly rewarded
The Fern consensus on Nonu in 2007 was that he was useless. The last two guys arguing for him to be in the RWC squad that year were me and a guy called Mojo.
Then he played a test off the bench - I think on the wing - and had a mare and even we had to give up on him.
At that stage no-one would have cared if he'd gone overseas and I distinctly recall someone writing, Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out, Nonu".
On that basis, maybe we should have a "Bring back George (Moala) campaign?!
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@chris-b said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
The Fern consensus on Nonu in 2007 was that he was useless. The last two guys arguing for him to be in the RWC squad that year were me and a guy called Mojo.
I wasn't on the Fern then, but he had a massive, massive defensive miss on BOD in Hamilton in '06 that led to many (including me) thinking he should never play at international level again.
From memory, in the 2005 game against Ireland in Ireland he came on and almost scored one of the best tries of the season ... but dropped the ball while grounding. Ran in from 50 odd metres out, beat people with pace, swerve and I think a chip but fumbled at the end. I can't believe that's 16 years ago, man I feel old today
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@chris-b tits for hands (Rodders had the same issue, must be a Wellington thing), one-dimensional, poor lateral movement in defense.
The development of Ma'a Nonu is one of the more remarkable things i have seen. Very few players develop their game to that extent, especially in the pro ranks. And especially when your basic game that got you a contract is probably enough to get you another one overseas.
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@chris-b said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@canefan said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@reprobate said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@canefan said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@reprobate it may take us a long time to fill the void of a GOAT conversation MF combo like Snake and Nonu
Yep - Nonu's the one we miss the most out of all those greats I reckon, we have pretty decent quality options in the other positions. I guess it's hard to pick a combo and stick with it so it can develop when you don't have 2 quality players to pick in the first place.
As has been said before, Nonu was far from a consensus pick when he first started. But for one reason or another the coaches stuck with him and Smith and were duly rewarded
The Fern consensus on Nonu in 2007 was that he was useless. The last two guys arguing for him to be in the RWC squad that year were me and a guy called Mojo.
Then he played a test off the bench - I think on the wing - and had a mare and even we had to give up on him.
At that stage no-one would have cared if he'd gone overseas and I distinctly recall someone writing, Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out, Nonu".
On that basis, maybe we should have a "Bring back George (Moala) campaign?!
What was wrong with George?
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@nzzp @mariner4life Yeah - I remember that misread on BOD - Ma'a playing the Red Sea to Brian's Moses!
I think the bench cameo in 2007 he might have just clean dropped the ball a couple of times in rapid succession.
Phenomenal improvement afterwards though.
I agree with whomever wrote above that he's been the hardest of the 2011-15 Greats to replace.
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@chris-b said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@nzzp @mariner4life Yeah - I remember that misread on BOD - Ma'a playing the Red Sea to Brian's Moses!
I think the bench cameo in 2007 he might have just clean dropped the ball a couple of times in rapid succession.
Phenomenal improvement afterwards though.
I agree with whomever wrote above that he's been the hardest of the 2011-15 Greats to replace.
in before @Nepia but the 6 jersey has been sooooo empty
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@mariner4life said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@chris-b said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@nzzp @mariner4life Yeah - I remember that misread on BOD - Ma'a playing the Red Sea to Brian's Moses!
I think the bench cameo in 2007 he might have just clean dropped the ball a couple of times in rapid succession.
Phenomenal improvement afterwards though.
I agree with whomever wrote above that he's been the hardest of the 2011-15 Greats to replace.
in before @Nepia but the 6 jersey has been sooooo empty
Do you reckon JK really qualifies as a great?
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Well, you summoned him, so I'll give him something to look at!
