What’s out there at Second Five?
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We really miss Nonu's vision. From what I've seen Havili and Nankivell are the only two guys who even seem to see the skip pass opportunity when it's on at the moment. Havili doesn't play there that much, and Nankivell doesn't play at all that much.
Laumape has no vision. He's a brutal runner, and does have the occasional really good game e.g. when he made BB look silly - but that's not enough for big tests when you're not that big and the opposition is top quality and fully committed.
Tupaea looks to have potential, very young.
Haven't seen enough of TUJ to comment.
ALB was very poor in early rounds, particularly defensively some really glaring costly errors - starting to come right though.
Goodhue is a centre, and a very good one. Didn't work out at 12.If you want pace at centre, I think Ennor is probably the better bet long term than Ioane. Reads the game better, better defensively, nost as elusive but hits gaps better. Both inexperienced though, so who knows how they turn out.
The nice thing about Havili is that he can kick from 50m so then you can pick a proper winger...
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@canefan said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@reprobate it may take us a long time to fill the void of a GOAT conversation MF combo like Snake and Nonu
Yep - Nonu's the one we miss the most out of all those greats I reckon, we have pretty decent quality options in the other positions. I guess it's hard to pick a combo and stick with it so it can develop when you don't have 2 quality players to pick in the first place.
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@reprobate said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@canefan said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@reprobate it may take us a long time to fill the void of a GOAT conversation MF combo like Snake and Nonu
Yep - Nonu's the one we miss the most out of all those greats I reckon, we have pretty decent quality options in the other positions. I guess it's hard to pick a combo and stick with it so it can develop when you don't have 2 quality players to pick in the first place.
As has been said before, Nonu was far from a consensus pick when he first started. But for one reason or another the coaches stuck with him and Smith and were duly rewarded
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@kiwimurph said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@kiwi_expat said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
I firmly believe Thomas Umaga-Jensen from Highlanders will be the eventual long-term All Blacks 12, pairing with ALB or Goodhue at 13.
Was really gutted when he got injured. Tony Brown reckoned he could've been an All Black as early as this year..
What's the basis of that?
He was outstanding vs Crusaders. He looked very useful.
Fair enough, I hadn't picked up that he was that good!
He’s a decent sized unit.
Not really fair is it, twins are supposed to be small.
You seem to forget the Arnold brothers who are now both playing for Toulouse.
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@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Oh and Smith wasn't slow.
Bollocks. He made Neemia Tialata look express. I'm a huge Smith (and post-2008 Nonu) fan but Smith was a tortoise.
Ok but yeah he wasn't. Any examples of where he wasn't quick enough? He ran like a lock, but he wasn't slow.
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@reprobate said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Ennor is probably the better bet long term than Ioane. Reads the game better, better defensively, nost as elusive but hits gaps better.
I do get surprised by how highly rated Ennor is at centre. Hasn't he only played a handful of games there? He was excellent on the wing a couple of years ago and I thought pretty average once he moved to centre - I can't see what puts him above Ioane (or even Faingaanuku).
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@canefan said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@crucial said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
We have been neglecting the 12 that has been hiding in plain sight.
Ardie.
So I hear Messam is making a comeback...
He can come inside Ardie (said in best Muzza voice)
They could both be left looking like a blind man in a brothel.
Q What did the sensitive blind man in the brothel say in return?
A Touché! -
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@reprobate said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Ennor is probably the better bet long term than Ioane. Reads the game better, better defensively, nost as elusive but hits gaps better.
I do get surprised by how highly rated Ennor is at centre. Hasn't he only played a handful of games there? He was excellent on the wing a couple of years ago and I thought pretty average once he moved to centre - I can't see what puts him above Ioane (or even Faingaanuku).
He is fast, like a fast thing? (That slowpoke Ioane..)And given his recent leg injuries, he could return as fast as Jack Goodhue in cement shoes...
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@kiwimurph said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones if they want a big body at 14 then i'd prefer they try Ennor there (as opposed to Jordie). Jury is still out on Rieko at 13 but it's hard to tell with Blues backs and game plan a shambles this season.
Well Rieko Ioane is 2cm taller and 11 kilos heavier than Ennor (going by the web) and isn't nursing knee injuries..
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@kiwiwomble said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@mariner4life said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@nzzp said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@mariner4life said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
In a perfect world i would like two guys in the loosies that can bend the line, a distributor at 12, and someone with genuine pace at 13. I think that provides the best attacking balance.
So ... McCaw, Kaino, Nonu and ... er... not Smith?
yeah okay let's play your game
It's not 2015 any more
But, in 2015 you had Kaino and Read who could get you over the line, Nonu was a very real threat BUT also your distributor. Smith was there for the ride.
Conrad Smith would not be as high on the pantheon if he played his career with ALB or Goodhue at 12.
i actually lean the other way, i dont think Nonu ever played as well as when he had smith outside him. His first stint with the blues and his stint with the Highlanders as good examples
He was stellar for Toulon.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@mn5 said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@mariner4life said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@mn5 said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@no-quarter said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Conrad was no doubt a really positive influence on Nonu, particularly in his early years when he was trying to find his feet, but I absolutely reject the argument that Nonu needed Smith outside him to excel when he was in his prime.
Nonu is the most complete 12 I've ever seen. He was an amazing distributer, vision for his outsides, had a good boot when needed, and was an absolute weapon with ball in hand. He was unreal, Conrad Smith playing outside him had nothing to do with that.
Honestly any 13 outside him would have looked good, and I know Carter is on record saying how much he liked playing inside Nonu.
Forget about his seasons with the Blues and the Landers, he's a Wellington man through and through so was mentally not there for those teams after the absolute farce with Hammett deciding to axe one of the greatest rugby players NZ has ever produced.
Poor old Ma’a just isn’t as revered as he should be. Naysayers will always point out indifferent form for Super Franchises that aren’t the Canes or maybe some dumb fuck off the field behaviour as a youngster. It’s pretty harsh really.
up there with your dumbest comments
Ma'a Nonu is one of the few players universally revered around here.
There are sites other than the fern. I’ve read all sorts of shit abusing him extremely harshly and unnecessarily. I remember one thread on Facebook saying Aaron Mauger was much better because he played for one franchise and was not a “mercenary” as one recent example.
Ah hah! Rumbled @Rancid-Schnitzel
Ah go fook yourself.
Anyway, the best 12 in NZ is JB. Pair him with ALB. Sorted.
Now the more important questions about pretty much the entire pack, the backup 9, 10 and 15....
Have said it before, but nowadays 12s don't pass that often to 13 (at least according to the stats). Arguably that calls out for a big body which can threaten the gain line.
What is then needed is a slick connection between 10 and 13, who runs good lines and can set up his outsides.
On that basis ALB better at 13, and maybe JB would work at 12.
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Oh and Smith wasn't slow.
Bollocks. He made Neemia Tialata look express. I'm a huge Smith (and post-2008 Nonu) fan but Smith was a tortoise.
Ok but yeah he wasn't. Any examples of where he wasn't quick enough? He ran like a lock, but he wasn't slow.
Was skinned by May in 2012.
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@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Oh and Smith wasn't slow.
Bollocks. He made Neemia Tialata look express. I'm a huge Smith (and post-2008 Nonu) fan but Smith was a tortoise.
Ok but yeah he wasn't. Any examples of where he wasn't quick enough? He ran like a lock, but he wasn't slow.
Was skinned by May in 2012.
Good example 🙂
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Oh and Smith wasn't slow.
Bollocks. He made Neemia Tialata look express. I'm a huge Smith (and post-2008 Nonu) fan but Smith was a tortoise.
Ok but yeah he wasn't. Any examples of where he wasn't quick enough? He ran like a lock, but he wasn't slow.
Was skinned by May in 2012.
Good example 🙂
I’d prefer to not have one!
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@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Oh and Smith wasn't slow.
Bollocks. He made Neemia Tialata look express. I'm a huge Smith (and post-2008 Nonu) fan but Smith was a tortoise.
Ok but yeah he wasn't. Any examples of where he wasn't quick enough? He ran like a lock, but he wasn't slow.
Was skinned by May in 2012.
Good example 🙂
I’d prefer to not have one!
You don't think May would skin any other AB centre?
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@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@pakman said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@shark said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
@bones said in What’s out there at Second Five?:
Oh and Smith wasn't slow.
Bollocks. He made Neemia Tialata look express. I'm a huge Smith (and post-2008 Nonu) fan but Smith was a tortoise.
Ok but yeah he wasn't. Any examples of where he wasn't quick enough? He ran like a lock, but he wasn't slow.
Was skinned by May in 2012.
Good example 🙂
I’d prefer to not have one!
You don't think May would skin any other AB centre?
He’s fast. But think Conrad was slightly out of position, which meant it became a foot race.
Bruce Robertson might still have made the tackle.
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