Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November
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In boxing they say styles make fights. The abs ran into a style that is just super awkward to play against.
Since at least 2012 the All Blacks have been a pain in the ass to play against cause you just know that they would score at least 2 tries out of fucken nothing, normally from turnover or an arsey kick. Today the pumas made almost no errors that the all blacks could capitalize on. The Pumas, unlike aus in the first three bled tests, really managed to put pressure on the All Black ruck ball.
I also felt that in the middle 40 the pumas showed more energy around the park. They were better in the ruck and when a ball fell free they made the 50-50 balls 80-20 to them.
The All Blacks have a good line out and maul, but their scrum looks like a weakness. They have a number of good second channel runners (Ardie, Sotutu, Coles) but needed Tuipoluto and the props to do more in close. Defence is fine, but never looked like getting turnovers. Kicking game is not the strength it has been (I thought the Puma full back was shakie and should have been tested more). Discipline was poor and dumb, summed up by Coles getting that penalty reversed after Gardner just warned both teams about that shit.
Also to add, it's not clear who the superstars additions are going to be in this WC cycle. Clarke was spectacular on debut, but nothing yet since. Sotutu looks very promising and Jordan was great in SRA. Ideally you'd want a couple more stepping up to replace B Smith, SBW and Read already gone and A Smith, Whitelock, Moody, B Barret, Coles and maybe Retallick not looking likely they for 2023.
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@Unite said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
Are there any decent journalists that are going to ask some pointed questions of these guys at the next few press conferences?
Foster just deflects to congratulating the other team, saying how well they played etc. It wasnt his fault, it was just the other team played better. It is very hard to win when the other teams just keep playing so well....
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The thing which frustrates me is this is the same-old, same-old.
The problems we saw from 2017 onward are still there and it shows against a team which can out-muscle and out-discipline us. The strategy doesn't seem to have changed much either - go down the blind, spin it into the midfield where the likes of BB can exploit the gaps and fast counter attacks. That and occasional shit kicks and poor discipline.
There just doesn't seem to be a Plan B or a default style of play when the main game plan isn't working and there's a need to retain possession and/or pressure the opposition into making mistakes. That's not helped by both individual stupidity and a collective sense of panic. We had this ability in spades until 2016 and I don't think it's down to individual players.
A few years ago, we played Argentina and were in exactly the same place. The team kept calm, tightened the play up, played for position and had confidence in their ability to make something happen. Sure enough we pilfered a ball (a Nonu hit IIRC) and launched a counter attack. Try. Change in tempo and confidence. Game over
Now there's a lack of composure which almost seems to have become part of the on-field culture which is worrying. It breeds nervousness and mistakes in the players which means we drop passes or make the wrong decision at key points in the game (e.g. BBBR in RWC2019 semi)
I don't blame Foster for all of this as he's inherited a lot of the problems and you have to give him credit for some good stuff like making the lineout drive a potent weapon and actually trying to bring some continuity to team selection. But he really needs to have a good, hard look at his tactics, his team plan/style of play development and, above all, get the players heads right, both individually and collectively.
And I can't fault Cane either for his on-field attitude. Sure, he's still learning and some of his decisions aren't good, but he's giving 120% and is at least focussing on controlling the team and the game. Do Senior players like Sam Whitelock, Nugget and Beauden Barrett need to step up and get more involved both on and off the field?
I don't think there's any need to panic as it's early days, but to keep Joe Public on-side, Foster and co. really should communicate what they see as the current problems and what they are doing to address them. Otherwise it's going to be another season or two of the same old headless chicken rugby
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@voodoo said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
So I ended up not watching this game. A quick scroll through this thread seems to indicate that it didn't go so well?
Now I have to decide whether to put myself through the torture of watching the replay.
Don't do it. I only watched the first 25 minutes before heading out. The recording got flushed
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@Paekakboyz said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@voodoo what @canefan said. Its bad bro, real bad. I watched the whole thing and wish I hadn't.
Imagine doing it surrounded by Wallabies supporters.
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The fact that you are posting this without a call to come bail you of jail is enough to show that you have considerable self-restraint.
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@antipodean said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Paekakboyz said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@voodoo what @canefan said. Its bad bro, real bad. I watched the whole thing and wish I hadn't.
Imagine doing it surrounded by Wallabies supporters.
Thats the time to sit quietly sipping your beer watching the fly walk up the wall
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@antipodean 2020 just keeps on giving eh?
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@Kirwan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
People were complaining about mythical Bok and England concerns, but this was what we were worried about. A physical side making few mistakes.
Yes mate exactly what I was talking about that got slammed by a few people on here
No progression more losses coming m. -
@NTA said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@chimoaus said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@NTA As a neutral are we overreacting or were we really that shit?
<SNIP>
EDIT: I mean in terms of this being rugby. You have to accept losses. Just makes it hard for you bastards you only lose occasionally.Argentina won the way you always beat the All Blacks: minimise your errors, make your tackles, and don't take any shit at set piece.
<SNIP>
That has been the AB game plan since Henry / McCaw left: defend, counterattack, and (occasionally) pull off your skills and fitness, complemented occasionally by the odd piece of streaky bullshit. And I'm not saying those skills and fitness aren't great, because the winning record over the last decade speaks for itself.
<SNIP>
The most burning example of this was Caleb Clarke: breaks 8 tackles on his way to setting up a try in Auckland, but was well looked after tonight. Simple game, really.
The first and last lines sum it up for me - I think we have been shit, we've just been lucky to have a few individuals like Caleb Clarke turn that shitness into a victory anyway.
Where I do disagree with you is in the Henry/McCaw era - we went into games with a clear game plan to put the opposition under pressure and played high percentage football to build that pressure. The opposition had to play at least above average to have a chance to beat Henry and McCaws AB's because they knew what their game plan was and knew what parts of their game they could use to suck up pressure/relieve pressure/create opportunities if that game plan wasn't delivering an outright advantage. While I won't dispute defence/counterattack/skills sometimes got us over the line, it depended on the opposition, how to exploit that teams weaknesses and how well we were playing, particularly towards the end of competitions/tours. And by and large, this continued in the Hansen/Read era although injuries to Read certainly disrupted this.
Fast forward to 2020 and Fozzies AB's versus Aussie last week. The game plan appeared to be "just throw it around and hopefully something works", when it didn't and we lost a player we briefly knuckled down to what we knew worked while down a player before coming out in the second half with no real plan again. Against Argentina we substituted no real plan for no real plan and terrible execution of the basics. While Argentina made their tackles and minimised their errors, the AB's looked directionless - how many times did we make errors under almost no pressure?
Sotutu's attempted pass to DMac in the last 10 minutes summed up the game - brilliant play and pass by Sotutu to create an opening but DMac didn't seem to be aware that it could have been an opportunity. Maybe I'm being harsh... But we are finding ways to stifle anything creative by just being shit.
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@Chris said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
@Kirwan said in Argentina One: Parramatta, 14 November:
People were complaining about mythical Bok and England concerns, but this was what we were worried about. A physical side making few mistakes.
Yes mate exactly what I was talking about that got slammed by a few people on here
No progression more losses coming m.I mentioned a couple of weeks ago that only Cane and Whitelock would currently be selected in a combined AB/Bok pack. Whitelock may not even make it tbh.
That unfortunately is the reality of where our forwards are atm. We simply aren't world class up front anymore. -
Y'all motherfuckers ready to listen to me yet?
