The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread
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@nostrildamus nah liability
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I have been reading all of this dribble and utter bullshit about poor culture. What a bunch of bloody PC friggin' dickheads !!! If you think this way , you all need to "man the hell up".
The boys are talented, our issue is with the top 4 inches possessed by the Coaching Team. Poor game plan, poor selection choices and the most frustrating thing is poor game day management when it comes to using the bench. There is a hesitation to make to bring on the bench at the right time.
What is said at half-time? Why have we stopped committing players to the breakdown and bringing some damn mongrel into the game? Not the shit brain explosions we see from Coles but hit the breakdown and damn well clean them out.
I don't give a crap about the Aussie result, but losing to the Argies was embarrassing.
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@Machpants said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@number9 said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
our issue is with the top 4 inches possessed by the Coaching Team
AKA culture. Welcome to the 21st century dude. Man the hell up, yeah that works š
Yes man the hell up, top 4 inches has nothing to do with culture it has everything to do with strategy. And yes the suicide rates in the 21sr Century are disgusting because no one man's up like they use to. Too much blame shifting and tagging everything with a damn label.
When we all came from the islands we all "manned the hell up".
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@number9 said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Machpants said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@number9 said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
our issue is with the top 4 inches possessed by the Coaching Team
AKA culture. Welcome to the 21st century dude. Man the hell up, yeah that works š
Yes man the hell up, top 4 inches has nothing to do with culture it has everything to do with strategy. And yes the suicide rates in the 21sr Century are disgusting because no one man's up like they use to. Too much blame shifting and tagging everything with a damn label.
When we all came from the islands we all "manned the hell up".
Haha I hear you PC BS drives me nuts.Say it like it is .
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@Snowy said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
Or perhaps the mental side of the game is missing and they aren't being coached on that side of things well enough.
I think the mental state - esp. under pressure - has been a problem for several years. Can't blame Foster for that, but has he the tools to fix it?
May be just me, but there seems to be a lack of inner passion in the team. We don't seem to see the BBBT fist pumps or Carter's yelling after a drop kick much anymore. All looks flat.
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Its very, very seldom that the ABs lose two matches in a row, so I waded through a great number of your 600+ and counting comments. The emotion in the immediate aftermath is to be expected however distance gives a slightly different perspective.
First the comments show the NZ public is passionate and knowledgeable. A good base to work from.
Second a number of valid points have been raised. In particular gt12's "just choose". This would generate tremendous competition for a number of places in the team and incredible performances would result. The battles for 2, 7, 9, 10, 11, 14 and 15 in particular would show off more talent than is available anywhere else in the world.
Third. There are some weaknesses and its unrealistic to think there would never be at least some. Depth at lock is clearly an issue. A weakness that needs a lot of good coaching for sure. But a weakness non-the less, not a disaster.
Fourth a poser for me. The ABs have been brilliant at scrambling wins, often in the dying moments when many facets of the game have not been working. Why, then, do they collapse when they loose a player? A loss last year was understandable but not the extent of the drubbing. And this year against rookie Wallabies and when they even enjoyed a 10 min numerical advantage???
And just stepping back a bit. The draw. How different if Rico had grounded the ball. Against Argentina. If Rico (again, but I do believe he is a very fine player) had caught that second half pass and Also HS passing with the line at his mercy? So close to 3 wins from 4 and very different emotions I suggest... -
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
Perhaps we need to start acknowledging that maybe, just maybe, our players just aren't that great?
Our props are nothing above average. At lock we've had 2 great ones in 25 years. And we let one leave, and cooked the other. At loose forward we are committed to playing a 7 at 8. Our 7 is good. The rest are in the "hopefully one day" pile.
We have 1 great halfback. Our options at 10 are a rookie yet to show he can do more than run the ball at shit defences, and a veteran who is the same. In the midfield ALB is good, those around varying levels of "meh". Wings are a couple of exciting talents who aren't allowed to start there, and a young 15. At 15 we have one of those earlier mentioned 10s, and his talented but erratic little brother.
This squad needs some serious coaching.
We have a very small core of senior guys who are "world class", without being the best in the world in their positions. We also have what appears to be a very, very talented but equally inexperienced crop of guys who could reach that world class bracket with proper coaching and if given the chance to get there (unfortunately they all appear to be loose forwards, midfielders and outside backs).
It's middle band of guys that are the issue, as I see it. We've got way too way guys in that 20-50 test range (some have more) who would struggle to make the teams of our closest rivals.
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@canefan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
Perhaps we need to start acknowledging that maybe, just maybe, our players just aren't that great?
Our props are nothing above average. At lock we've had 2 great ones in 25 years. And we let one leave, and cooked the other. At loose forward we are committed to playing a 7 at 8. Our 7 is good. The rest are in the "hopefully one day" pile.
We have 1 great halfback. Our options at 10 are a rookie yet to show he can do more than run the ball at shit defences, and a veteran who is the same. In the midfield ALB is good, those around varying levels of "meh". Wings are a couple of exciting talents who aren't allowed to start there, and a young 15. At 15 we have one of those earlier mentioned 10s, and his talented but erratic little brother.
This squad needs some serious coaching.
So probably not the best time to install a guy who has never won anything, never been head coach of a test side, just so we don't rock the boat of the outgoing coach?
So you reckon Gatland should have got the job?
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@Bones said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@canefan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
Perhaps we need to start acknowledging that maybe, just maybe, our players just aren't that great?
Our props are nothing above average. At lock we've had 2 great ones in 25 years. And we let one leave, and cooked the other. At loose forward we are committed to playing a 7 at 8. Our 7 is good. The rest are in the "hopefully one day" pile.
We have 1 great halfback. Our options at 10 are a rookie yet to show he can do more than run the ball at shit defences, and a veteran who is the same. In the midfield ALB is good, those around varying levels of "meh". Wings are a couple of exciting talents who aren't allowed to start there, and a young 15. At 15 we have one of those earlier mentioned 10s, and his talented but erratic little brother.
This squad needs some serious coaching.
So probably not the best time to install a guy who has never won anything, never been head coach of a test side, just so we don't rock the boat of the outgoing coach?
So you reckon Gatland should have got the job?
He's got the CV. But I haven't forgotten the way he behaved during the Lions tour. This SRA season excepted, I would have felt happier if he was part of Fozzie's coaching group than who we've got right now. He wasn't my first choice
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@canefan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Bones said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@canefan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
Perhaps we need to start acknowledging that maybe, just maybe, our players just aren't that great?
Our props are nothing above average. At lock we've had 2 great ones in 25 years. And we let one leave, and cooked the other. At loose forward we are committed to playing a 7 at 8. Our 7 is good. The rest are in the "hopefully one day" pile.
We have 1 great halfback. Our options at 10 are a rookie yet to show he can do more than run the ball at shit defences, and a veteran who is the same. In the midfield ALB is good, those around varying levels of "meh". Wings are a couple of exciting talents who aren't allowed to start there, and a young 15. At 15 we have one of those earlier mentioned 10s, and his talented but erratic little brother.
This squad needs some serious coaching.
So probably not the best time to install a guy who has never won anything, never been head coach of a test side, just so we don't rock the boat of the outgoing coach?
So you reckon Gatland should have got the job?
He's got the CV. But I haven't forgotten the way he behaved during the Lions tour. This SRA season excepted, I would have felt happier if he was part of Fozzie's coaching group than who we've got right now. He wasn't my first choice
Joseph?
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@Bones said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@canefan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Bones said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@canefan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
Perhaps we need to start acknowledging that maybe, just maybe, our players just aren't that great?
Our props are nothing above average. At lock we've had 2 great ones in 25 years. And we let one leave, and cooked the other. At loose forward we are committed to playing a 7 at 8. Our 7 is good. The rest are in the "hopefully one day" pile.
We have 1 great halfback. Our options at 10 are a rookie yet to show he can do more than run the ball at shit defences, and a veteran who is the same. In the midfield ALB is good, those around varying levels of "meh". Wings are a couple of exciting talents who aren't allowed to start there, and a young 15. At 15 we have one of those earlier mentioned 10s, and his talented but erratic little brother.
This squad needs some serious coaching.
So probably not the best time to install a guy who has never won anything, never been head coach of a test side, just so we don't rock the boat of the outgoing coach?
So you reckon Gatland should have got the job?
He's got the CV. But I haven't forgotten the way he behaved during the Lions tour. This SRA season excepted, I would have felt happier if he was part of Fozzie's coaching group than who we've got right now. He wasn't my first choice
Joseph?
I think Rennie has a great temperament, showed he can win with the Chiefs. Robertson has won a lot, I worried that it might be a stretch, but if they picked him I would have been okay with that. JJ and Tony Brown showed great innovation with Japan. Any of those 3 would have been interesting. Successful? We'll never know
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@canefan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Bones said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@canefan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@Bones said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@canefan said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
Perhaps we need to start acknowledging that maybe, just maybe, our players just aren't that great?
Our props are nothing above average. At lock we've had 2 great ones in 25 years. And we let one leave, and cooked the other. At loose forward we are committed to playing a 7 at 8. Our 7 is good. The rest are in the "hopefully one day" pile.
We have 1 great halfback. Our options at 10 are a rookie yet to show he can do more than run the ball at shit defences, and a veteran who is the same. In the midfield ALB is good, those around varying levels of "meh". Wings are a couple of exciting talents who aren't allowed to start there, and a young 15. At 15 we have one of those earlier mentioned 10s, and his talented but erratic little brother.
This squad needs some serious coaching.
So probably not the best time to install a guy who has never won anything, never been head coach of a test side, just so we don't rock the boat of the outgoing coach?
So you reckon Gatland should have got the job?
He's got the CV. But I haven't forgotten the way he behaved during the Lions tour. This SRA season excepted, I would have felt happier if he was part of Fozzie's coaching group than who we've got right now. He wasn't my first choice
Joseph?
I think Rennie has a great temperament, showed he can win with the Chiefs. Robertson has won a lot, I worried that it might be a stretch, but if they picked him I would have been okay with that. JJ and Tony Brown showed great innovation with Japan. Any of those 3 would have been interesting. Successful? We'll never know.
I can understand the rationale with keeping the team together after 2007; we needed to react differently than previous cup failures, and not throw the baby out with the bathwater for once. We'd just won in 2011, Ted stepped down and it was an easy sell to install Hansen as coach, especially as Wayne Smith stayed on. We had just got the monkey off our back and the core of the team were still in their prime. Hansen of course won Bill in 2015 in fine style, but as we lost key players and lost some valuable up and comers the results were still excellent. In hindsight, Hansen's feelings that 2017 should have been it for him were the warning sign for 2019. Even then we had the cattle to win the cup IMHO and were undone by our tactics and gameplan. At that point it would have been easy to cut bait and end the Henry-Hansen era. But the NZRFU chose to roll the dice one more time, and here we are
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@Bones said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@canefan there's only one in there that's been head coach of a test side.
I know. They just feel like they have more upside. All could have been failures, but it feels like the team are stale at the moment and could have done with a fresh voice. Of course you never know the goings on behind the curtain. Hansen always appeared a curt gruff guy, but in private with the guys I think he was different
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Some great posts here ... let me sum up the NZ psyche on this issue.
Losing sucks, but it has to happen at some point - Argies been there or there abouts for a while.
The problem is two fold.
- The team is showing all the negative traits of a Foster coached team.
- This is exactly why pretty much so nobody wanted him as coach on this forum, let alone the entire country
It may not be Fosters fault, and natural cycles will happen.
But thatās not what it looks like.
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@sparky said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
@mariner4life said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
We're playing the same game plan as 2015 with significantly worse players and hoping for the same results.
Actually that's not fair. 2015 we had more than 1 way to play.
Still better players but.
This is a new low for AB rugby as far as I am concerned. A supposedly superior team playing its 5th test against an inferior side playing it's first meaningful game?
Nails it for me.
The ABs' culture in the last four years has become backwards, arrogant and lazy in its thinking. Innovation has been stifled. Inward looking (almost narcissistic), self-congratulatory and complacent. What you sow, you reap.
You couldnāt fit anymore cliches in a post if you tried...
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I think the NZ rugby fan can accept losses if there is the feeling of moving forward, innovation, and change. We won't like it, we'll whinge and carry on like drama queens but this is different. The problem is that it is the same old problematic dross for the last few years and nothing is changing! So friggen frustrating!
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:
I think the NZ rugby fan can accept losses if there is the feeling of moving forward, innovation, and change. We won't like it, we'll whinge and carry on like drama queens but this is different. The problem is that it is the same old problematic dross for the last few years and nothing is changing! So friggen frustrating!
I remember quite a bit of squealing and whinging coming from fans when the ABs lost back to back tests in 2008.
āHavenāt learned from RWCā, āwhatās up with these selections?ā āOutpassioned and outcoachedā āchopped and changed teamāIām not saying the situations are the same, but Iāve heard some of the same things Iāve read in the last couple of weeks.
Who knows where this will go and what lies ahead, but Iāve never been a sky is falling in or weāre in a massive pile of poo kind of guy (even in 98-99...), but there are some big challenges ahead with game plans and personnel.
