The Cane vs Savea Debate
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@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@booboo Umm well I've resisted talking about this for four whole days, but on Thursday night I was privy to the actual Canterbury / Crusaders analysis of Akira Ioane and the stats don't paint the picture that he can offer that particular skill. And his character was called into question, to boot.
But for mine, he's impressed me in a handful of games this season. It's a small sample but let's hope the stats aren't the be all and end all, and the single opinion expressed was also just that, and incorrect.
Was this recent analysis or from the start of the year? We've heard that before and it's quite believable. But everybody would have to admit he's been a massive improved this year.
But this is an anti-Chiefs player thread not an anti-Blues player thread, let's not digress ...
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It's funny how Cane's handling is being knocked - not saying it has been great lately but when he burst on the scene he had quite good hands and was a decent link player.
If there is one game we can point to the difference between the players, its the biggest game of last year. Speculative but I think everyone would agree we needed more dominant tackles and tight physicality.
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@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@mofitzy_ So you're saying it's the openside flankers' role to provide all that physicality?
It's everyone's job to provide physicality in the modern game - aside from nine (and they used to!) and the occaisional outside back like Kolbe or DMac.
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@shark said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@mofitzy_ So you're saying it's the openside flankers' role to provide all that physicality?
No, it's everyones. This argument that if we have a hard hitting 6 then we can afford to carry someone who is passive in the loose forwards is ridiculous. Test rugby against good opposition is trench warfare and every opportunity we get to stop their forward progress so they give us the ball back needs to be taken.
Cane is a better openside flanker in the mould of McCaw. He reads the game better than other flankers, he gets involved more than other flankers and his involvements matter.
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@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
This argument that if we have a hard hitting 6 then we can afford to carry someone who is passive in the loose forwards is ridiculous.
not sure thats what people are saying?
We have seen the discussions here many times before where there is making tackles and dominant tackles, both have thier place, your 7 if he is playing for t/os isnt gonna go hunting for the big hits
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@taniwharugby said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
This argument that if we have a hard hitting 6 then we can afford to carry someone who is passive in the loose forwards is ridiculous.
not sure thats what people are saying?
We have seen the discussions here many times before where there is making tackles and dominant tackles, both have thier place, your 7 if he is playing for t/os isnt gonna go hunting for the big hits
So you end up with a flanker like Cockwomble. If your support and cleanout is on the job, his entire game is nullified and you're making yards.
There are far too many people who watch SR and think that translates to Tests.
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@Machpants said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
And Ardie is in no way passive. His hits are more often dominant than cane in SRA
Nonsense.
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@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
So you end up with a flanker like Cockwomble.
yes...which to me isnt how we play, more so when you look at how easily nullified he can be
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@taniwharugby said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
This argument that if we have a hard hitting 6 then we can afford to carry someone who is passive in the loose forwards is ridiculous.
not sure thats what people are saying?
We have seen the discussions here many times before where there is making tackles and dominant tackles, both have thier place, your 7 if he is playing for t/os isnt gonna go hunting for the big hits
I think some are confusing the 7 jersey with Pocockwomble.
McCaw wasn't an out and out jackler and that's what made him great. He got stuck into being among the first to the breakdown via excellent running lines, then being a nuisance once there or cleaning out for quick re-cycling.
The likes of Boshier are still trying to balance their game out in this regard.He can turn on the jackling at critical times but looks more to being first to the breakdown or making the tackle.I think both Cane and Ardie are also not quite there on that perfect balance but in different aspects.
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@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@taniwharugby said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
This argument that if we have a hard hitting 6 then we can afford to carry someone who is passive in the loose forwards is ridiculous.
not sure thats what people are saying?
We have seen the discussions here many times before where there is making tackles and dominant tackles, both have thier place, your 7 if he is playing for t/os isnt gonna go hunting for the big hits
So you end up with a flanker like Cockwomble. If your support and cleanout is on the job, his entire game is nullified and you're making yards.
There are far too many people who watch SR and think that translates to Tests.
thats offensive to my people
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@Machpants said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
And Ardie is in no way passive. His hits are more often dominant than cane in SRA
I'd like to know how they classified a dominant tackle.
Mitchell Brown was second but I don't remember him smashing players in the tackle either.
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@Kiwiwomble said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@taniwharugby said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
This argument that if we have a hard hitting 6 then we can afford to carry someone who is passive in the loose forwards is ridiculous.
not sure thats what people are saying?
We have seen the discussions here many times before where there is making tackles and dominant tackles, both have thier place, your 7 if he is playing for t/os isnt gonna go hunting for the big hits
So you end up with a flanker like Cockwomble. If your support and cleanout is on the job, his entire game is nullified and you're making yards.
There are far too many people who watch SR and think that translates to Tests.
thats offensive to my people
I thought Kiwi was your Iwi. Womble just your designation?
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@Bovidae said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
I'd like to know how they classified a dominant tackle.
Wayne Smith did an interview or was in an article several years back about what they deem a tackle vs a dominant one, I dont think it will be in our archives here.
If he said, it is FACT
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@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Machpants said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
And Ardie is in no way passive. His hits are more often dominant than cane in SRA
Nonsense.
Whelp, that's what the stats said.
Cane's Super Rugby Aotearoa stats show that he has made the third-most tackles in the competition, behind fellow open sides Dalton Papalii and Dillon Hunt, despite sitting out the opening two rounds.
He is making dominant tackles at a solid rate of 19%, but that sits below other loose forwards Ardie Savea (31%), Mitch Brown (28%), Papalii (25%), Du'Plessis Kirifi (25%), and Tom Christie (25%).
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@Machpants said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@antipodean said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
@Machpants said in The Cane vs Savea Debate:
And Ardie is in no way passive. His hits are more often dominant than cane in SRA
Nonsense.
Whelp, that's what the stats said.
Cane's Super Rugby Aotearoa stats show that he has made the third-most tackles in the competition, behind fellow open sides Dalton Papalii and Dillon Hunt, despite sitting out the opening two rounds.
He is making dominant tackles at a solid rate of 19%, but that sits below other loose forwards Ardie Savea (31%), Mitch Brown (28%), Papalii (25%), Du'Plessis Kirifi (25%), and Tom Christie (25%).
Whose stats are those, Helen fucking Kellers? Not even Ardie's mum thinks he makes dominant tackles a third of the time.
