AB Depth Chart 2020
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@mariner4life said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@junior said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants didn’t win a World Cup though did we? Suddenly we get a tall 6 and 8 who can win lineout ball and we start (a) winning our own 2 ball when leading a RWC final by a single point (b) pinching ball of Victor Fucking Matefield of all people when leading a RWC semi final by two points, which helps us to win consecutive world cups
And yet, with our best locking combo ever and an extra lock in 6 we still didn't win the RWC, it is almost like it is not the only factor to winning games, a great line out.
held back by a lack of physicality at 7. A journeyman at 6. And a spent force at 8.
What he said and also the fact that the guy we had playing at 6 wasn't even actually a 6.
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@Bovidae said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@nzzp said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@cgrant depth really improving, but we are missing that tall timber at 6 as a lineout option. Robinson possibly the best candidate in the lineout, but not sure the others are that good are they?
Fark Kaino left a hole
We've never really used the 6 as a lineout option in a while. When Kaino played he was the 4th option after the locks and Read. What you do need is either the 6 or 8 to be a genuine target, as Read showed. In fact, he was often used more than BBBR.
A taller 6 can help as a lifter though. But picking a tall 6 to strengthen the lineout and then not using them is just as dumb. Eh Steve.
But the point is they still had 4 viable options, even if they didn't use the 4th option that frequently. (Having said that, Kaino did win arguably the most important line out in NZ Rugby history in the RWC 2011 final!)
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@voodoo said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@ACT-Crusader said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Bovidae Jerry was rarely used as well when he played for the ABs at least. Have to go back to Gibbes and Thorne as more frequently used LO options at blindside.
Interesting - my memory is shitty enough to not challenge you on this, but I always had Jerry down as a very good and well-utilised LO option. Maybe I'm coloured by his efforts there in yellow?
My memory is that they used Rodney far more and I think it was for the reason they use Ardie a lot these days - no one expects it to be thrown to him. That's basically admitting that the guys who should be jumping aren't good enough to do it.
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@ACT-Crusader said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@mariner4life said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
tall lifters are as important as tall jumpers
also, having 4 good options creates huge doubt in a defending lineout.
Matfield, Botha, Burger, Juan Smith - very rarely lost LO ball and stole plenty.
Wet dream lineout
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@mariner4life throw in the midget Pierre Spies (6’4) at number 8...
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@junior said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@mariner4life said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@junior said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Machpants didn’t win a World Cup though did we? Suddenly we get a tall 6 and 8 who can win lineout ball and we start (a) winning our own 2 ball when leading a RWC final by a single point (b) pinching ball of Victor Fucking Matefield of all people when leading a RWC semi final by two points, which helps us to win consecutive world cups
And yet, with our best locking combo ever and an extra lock in 6 we still didn't win the RWC, it is almost like it is not the only factor to winning games, a great line out.
held back by a lack of physicality at 7. A journeyman at 6. And a spent force at 8.
What he said and also the fact that the guy we had playing at 6 wasn't even actually a 6.
6 is the new 13
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@voodoo said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
Be interested to see the stats on that Bok line out. I know the options look great, but my memory is all about a no-fuss quick throw to 2 or 4, bugger all trickery or movement..
The simpler the better.
When our lineout was it's best we threw a heap of 2-ball because Smith's pass was good enough to still make it good attacking ball.
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@ACT-Crusader although wasnt that in the period where we didnt contest it either?
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@taniwharugby said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@ACT-Crusader although wasnt that in the period where we didnt contest it either?
There was a period where almost every lineout was uncontested, no one bothered
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@Machpants SA still contested our ball though, but we just gave them a free pass with thiers.
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6 and 8, for which the cupboard looked bare a few months ago, are now filled with many young talents. There is more concern for the halfback position where no promising youngster has emerged for a few years now. Fakatava is nowhere to be seen while Enari takes more time than expected to hatch. Let's hope Smith and Perenara keep on playing well till the next RWC.
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@taniwharugby said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@ACT-Crusader although wasnt that in the period where we didnt contest it either?
We used Jack and Ali to contest opposition throws.
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@Crazy-Horse Parkinson and Dickson are both 2m+.
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@Bones said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@kiwiinmelb pffft...Sopoaga killed it for the ABs. Mounga has a way to go to be superior. Him in form is pretty much what @Crucial described.
But went to Wasps and was absolutely terrible. NZR let Sops go at the right time perhaps?
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@Tim said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
Hooker
A big issue for Foster's team. NZ really only has one international quality hooker, Codie Taylor, and he has probably been over played over the past two seasons, and isn't dominant at test level. Coles has okay as backup, but has been below desired quality for the past two years, and has discipline problems. Showed some signs of life on Sunday, but much of his game was of lesser quality to Parsons. Time to drop him.
Contenders:
First thing to note is that all the next level of hookers (Parsons isn't in contention for the ABs) have problems with their throwing. This can be exacerbated by lack of lineout targets (Chiefs, Hurricanes).
Taukei'aho - has a very good mix of power in the loose and tight roles, and a good work rate. Throwing needs a lot of work.
Aumua - dynamic player with good speed, brutal ball carrier, can put in some big hits on defence. Has improved his work rate. Skills will continue to develop. Poor lineout thrower.
Coltman - excellent "jackler", poor thrower, rest of game not international standard.
Makalio - big guy, pretty powerful, decent thrower. Different type of player than the ABs have used in the past, possible stopgap.
Hooker is arguably the problem position for Foster's ABs. Coles in his last year or 18 months from retirement. Taylor might no be around for next RWC. It's a step down to Coltman and Aumua who have reliability issues then a step down again to any other options.
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@sparky said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Bones said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@kiwiinmelb pffft...Sopoaga killed it for the ABs. Mounga has a way to go to be superior. Him in form is pretty much what @Crucial described.
But went Wasps and was absolutely terrible. NZR let Sops go at the right time perhaps?
Yeah EP form is definitely indicative of how a player's form would be in/for NZ.
We all know Heinz and Flutey are the ones that got away. Gopperth would've overtaken Carter.
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@Bones Would have liked that lad who played for King Country in the early 90s, Martin Johnson, to have hung around after making the NZ Colts. Went well against John Eales in 1990 Colts games. Might have helped ABs lineout woes in late 1990s/early 2000s
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@Duluth said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
@Tim said in AB Depth Chart 2020:
Contenders:
Dunshea, Strange, Walker-Leawere.
I would add Josh Dickson to that list. He's looks like a better prospect than Dunshea and Strange
I liked the look of him last season, but Walker-Leawere has not really done much this year. Another talent the Hurricanes coaches are not really bringing on.
