EOYT Revenue Sharing
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@Machpants said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
I think you guys are dreaming if you think the RFU, WRU are going to negotiate any sort of deal at this juncture.
They're going to have to, unless they get a southern tour in first, and they won't. The deal is you keep your own revenue, tour each way. They are going to reneg on that, so the doors are open.
Yes, aware of that. I think the attitude will be "fine, don't come".
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@MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@Machpants said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
I think you guys are dreaming if you think the RFU, WRU are going to negotiate any sort of deal at this juncture.
They're going to have to, unless they get a southern tour in first, and they won't. The deal is you keep your own revenue, tour each way. They are going to reneg on that, so the doors are open.
Yes, aware of that. I think the attitude will be "fine, don't come".
So sharing revenue is worse than no revenue?
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@Machpants said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@Machpants said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
I think you guys are dreaming if you think the RFU, WRU are going to negotiate any sort of deal at this juncture.
They're going to have to, unless they get a southern tour in first, and they won't. The deal is you keep your own revenue, tour each way. They are going to reneg on that, so the doors are open.
Yes, aware of that. I think the attitude will be "fine, don't come".
So sharing revenue is worse than no revenue?
Showing weakness and pushed around by NZ or Aus worse than no revenue, correct.
I imagine SA (world champs, Lions next year) and Japan (cos everybody LOVES Japan) are the only ones with bargaining chips. The fact SA & Japan are loaded just a co-incidence you see, old son.
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Undoubtedly there is a bit of a premium for the All Blacks or the Springboks in the UK, but less than most people in NZ or SA think.
As someone said above England can fill their ground four times over for 6N and almost all Autumn Internationals. A second Six Nations in 2020 would be extremely popular now. Also, individual All Blacks (Lomu, Carter and SBW besides) are hardly household names here. They can ride the Tube when they are in London. Compared to the Film stars, pop stars, tennis players, NFL stars and top footballers who appear in London regularly (in normal times), the All Blacks aren't always going to be the biggest show in town.
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@MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
I think you guys are dreaming if you think the RFU, WRU are going to negotiate any sort of deal at this juncture.
No one's going to be negotiating anything right now (and I don't think anyone was suggesting that anyone would be). However, it's almost a certainty that there will be scope for some kind of negotiation at some point down the track
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@sparky said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
Undoubtedly there is a bit of a premium for the All Blacks or the Springboks in the UK, but less than moat people in NZ or SA think.
As someone said above England can fill their ground four times over for 6N and almost all Autumn Internationals. A second Six Nations in 2020 would be extremely popular now. Also, individual All Blacks (Lomu, Carter and SBW besides) are hardly household names here. They can ride the Tube when they are in London. Compared to the Film stars, pop stars, tennis players, NFL stars and top footballers who appear in London regularly (in normal times), the All Blacks aren't always going to be the biggest show in town.
I don't disagree. My point is that there is still probably a premium, which I think might be a more realistic in terms of getting a slice of.
So, for example, if:
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x is what the RFU charges for a ticket for an England v Samoa match; and
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x+50% is what is charged for a ticket to an England v All Blacks match
then maybe the NZRU should try and negotiate a cut (let's say 35%) of that extra 50%?
It won't be the 50:50 that some people seem to think is the only option, but it is a good starting point and certainly better than the nothing we currently get. And, importantly, the RFU still get a massive payday.
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@junior said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
I think you guys are dreaming if you think the RFU, WRU are going to negotiate any sort of deal at this juncture.
No one's going to be negotiating anything right now (and I don't think anyone was suggesting that anyone would be). However, it's almost a certainty that there will be scope for some kind of negotiation at some point down the track
I didn't say right now, I said at this juncture.
Everything in the world is at a juncture now. Covid is quite the game changer.
It's not possible to overstate how important the 6N is up here, and how little people really care about the AI.
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@MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@junior said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@MajorRage said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
I think you guys are dreaming if you think the RFU, WRU are going to negotiate any sort of deal at this juncture.
No one's going to be negotiating anything right now (and I don't think anyone was suggesting that anyone would be). However, it's almost a certainty that there will be scope for some kind of negotiation at some point down the track
I didn't say right now, I said at this juncture.
Everything in the world is at a juncture now. Covid is quite the game changer.
It's not possible to overstate how important the 6N is up here, and how little people really care about the AI.
Typical arrogant Poms
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@Machpants said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@junior haha, well the NH can't win a RWC, pretty much, so they love 6N cos no SH teams to win it most of the time. SA join, that'll be it for them
I was just joking really because many NH scribes / fans accuse SH media / fans (AB scribes and supporters in particular) of arrogance because their lack of knowledge about what's happening in the 6N and NH rugby in general. Of course, the reverse is also entirely correct, but seldom gets mentioned.
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And the longer England don't play NZ, the longer the unbeaten streak lasts
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@sparky said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
Undoubtedly there is a bit of a premium for the All Blacks or the Springboks in the UK, but less than most people in NZ or SA think.
As someone said above England can fill their ground four times over for 6N and almost all Autumn Internationals. A second Six Nations in 2020 would be extremely popular now.
A second 6 Nations in November, or more specifically 3 x inter-6 Nations 'friendlies' plus some catch-up postponed 2020 6 nations matches in November means that 3 of the nations play only 1 home game, 3 play 2 home games, 0 play the normal 3 November home games. So, as Twickenham is always the focal point. England still owe Italy an away game from the 6N, then they have 2 other free weeks, so maybe 1 game at Twickenham this November. Unless they cut into the clubs window. They are due their 2-yearly extra Twickers test this year, v Australia. So, that one may go ahead if travel has reverted to normal. But with the extra travel costs as the Wallabies likely won't already be next door the week before.
I assume the reason the November window is in conversation is because that is when most people are seeing the earliest re-introduction of test rugby. After missing out on an entire domestic season there is no way the SH teams would tour without revenue sharing.
Most likely the NH would reject revenue sharing and go for the 3 inter-NH friendlies, and the SH would play between themselves sharing home games. I think both camps (the Unions CEOs) will be most happy with that outcome anyway in the circumstances. For NZ, I see as the most likely scenario a 3 match Bledisloe. Hopefullly after a full strength 2 month NPC.
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@sparky said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@Higgins said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@sparky That may be true but Wales will need to be able to finance their team and other than Six Nations games the only other side that fills most of the NOrthern grounds to capacity is the All Blacks.
Wrong, Twickenham makes a lot of its money from debenitures which are sold years in advance. Almost all games against Tier One nations are 82,000 sell outs. Lots of the crowd aren't really there to watch Rugby, but to have a sing song with thousands of others with bars nearby.
Given England is losing 700 people a day to the Coronavirus at the moment and the UK PM is in hospital. Threatening them at the moment (especially with a basically empty threat) is an appalling negotiation strategy.
Threatening?
It's always made sense to me that both parties who are putting on the show should be rcompensed for it.
Do you think anybody is going to play for nothing in this day and age, even Wales or Japan?
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@booboo said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@sparky said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@Higgins said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@sparky That may be true but Wales will need to be able to finance their team and other than Six Nations games the only other side that fills most of the NOrthern grounds to capacity is the All Blacks.
Wrong, Twickenham makes a lot of its money from debenitures which are sold years in advance. Almost all games against Tier One nations are 82,000 sell outs. Lots of the crowd aren't really there to watch Rugby, but to have a sing song with thousands of others with bars nearby.
Given England is losing 700 people a day to the Coronavirus at the moment and the UK PM is in hospital. Threatening them at the moment (especially with a basically empty threat) is an appalling negotiation strategy.
.....Do you think anybody is going to play for nothing in this day and age, even Wales or Japan?
The ideal is that it is a reciprocal arrangement but that is difficult in practice. Easier for a SH nation (or 2 or 3) to come up here and play 3 test matches v different opposition every year or so with little in the way of internal travel than it is for a NH side to play tests v multiple opposition down under. Consequently the NH sides tend to tour one country and play 2 or 3 tests but only every so often. Plus of course you guys get to host the Lions tours as well. Add in different degrees of revenue generation and costs as well as the overcrowded schedule and it is very difficult to get an equitable outcome.
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@Catogrande said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@sparky said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@Higgins said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@sparky That may be true but Wales will need to be able to finance their team and other than Six Nations games the only other side that fills most of the NOrthern grounds to capacity is the All Blacks.
Wrong, Twickenham makes a lot of its money from debenitures which are sold years in advance. Almost all games against Tier One nations are 82,000 sell outs. Lots of the crowd aren't really there to watch Rugby, but to have a sing song with thousands of others with bars nearby.
Given England is losing 700 people a day to the Coronavirus at the moment and the UK PM is in hospital. Threatening them at the moment (especially with a basically empty threat) is an appalling negotiation strategy.
.....Do you think anybody is going to play for nothing in this day and age, even Wales or Japan?
The ideal is that it is a reciprocal arrangement but that is difficult in practice. Easier for a SH nation (or 2 or 3) to come up here and play 3 test matches v different opposition every year or so with little in the way of internal travel than it is for a NH side to play tests v multiple opposition down under. Consequently the NH sides tend to tour one country and play 2 or 3 tests but only every so often. Plus of course you guys get to host the Lions tours as well. Add in different degrees of revenue generation and costs as well as the overcrowded schedule and it is very difficult to get an equitable outcome.
Again, I'm not necessarily talking 50/50. But both sides generate the revenue. Both sides should share it. In whatever form equitable is.
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@booboo said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@Catogrande said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@booboo said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@sparky said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@Higgins said in EOYT Revenue Sharing:
@sparky That may be true but Wales will need to be able to finance their team and other than Six Nations games the only other side that fills most of the NOrthern grounds to capacity is the All Blacks.
Wrong, Twickenham makes a lot of its money from debenitures which are sold years in advance. Almost all games against Tier One nations are 82,000 sell outs. Lots of the crowd aren't really there to watch Rugby, but to have a sing song with thousands of others with bars nearby.
Given England is losing 700 people a day to the Coronavirus at the moment and the UK PM is in hospital. Threatening them at the moment (especially with a basically empty threat) is an appalling negotiation strategy.
.....Do you think anybody is going to play for nothing in this day and age, even Wales or Japan?
The ideal is that it is a reciprocal arrangement but that is difficult in practice. Easier for a SH nation (or 2 or 3) to come up here and play 3 test matches v different opposition every year or so with little in the way of internal travel than it is for a NH side to play tests v multiple opposition down under. Consequently the NH sides tend to tour one country and play 2 or 3 tests but only every so often. Plus of course you guys get to host the Lions tours as well. Add in different degrees of revenue generation and costs as well as the overcrowded schedule and it is very difficult to get an equitable outcome.
Again, I'm not necessarily talking 50/50. But both sides generate the revenue. Both sides should share it. In whatever form equitable is.
Sure, I understand that, but I’ve not got anywhere near to thinking about the split. Just contemplating the complexities of it all. Not forgetting that what might work between say England and NZ might not work between England and Aussie, let alone say Wales and SA or Fiji.
