All Black Coach - Ian Foster
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@Kirwan said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
Is there anyone outside of the NZR senior leadership circle that genuinely thinks that Ian Foster is the best person for the job? His appointment would be the very definition of cronyism.
As would the inexperienced Robertson really.
Would it? How?
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@Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@nzzp said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
When you say "well travelled path" you mean it's happened once? With Steve Hansen? Scott Robertson has has success at every level as a coach, at club, U20's, provincial and Super Rugby levels. Why would he or should he play second fiddle to an absolute pretender like Ian Foster who has never had any success as a Head Coach?
The last two head coaches did overseas stints with Wales, then came back to the ABs. I think Henry squeezed in a season with the Blues as a support coach, and they won the thing.
International rugby is not Super. You have a larger player pool and less time with the players, no warm-ups, and the weaknesses in the opposition are less.
Given Robertson doesn't want to be an assistant, I'd be surprised if he got there this time. Could be the Deans candidate this time around
Scott Robertson has as much International Head Coach experience as Ian Foster does. None.
ha ha ha, true of course. He's got more experience coaching the Crusaders than Henry did - does that count since we're considering weird statistics?
I reckon JJ and TB may be the front runners. International coaching experience, taking a motley crew to a Super title, would be an interesting appointment for sure.
Fossie seems loved by people who work with him (including Wayne Smith, whose opinion I really really respect), and may have become a good coach in the last 8 years. Then again, gut feel is gut feel... just never seemed to 'have it' as a coach.
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@nzzp said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@nzzp said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
When you say "well travelled path" you mean it's happened once? With Steve Hansen? Scott Robertson has has success at every level as a coach, at club, U20's, provincial and Super Rugby levels. Why would he or should he play second fiddle to an absolute pretender like Ian Foster who has never had any success as a Head Coach?
The last two head coaches did overseas stints with Wales, then came back to the ABs. I think Henry squeezed in a season with the Blues as a support coach, and they won the thing.
International rugby is not Super. You have a larger player pool and less time with the players, no warm-ups, and the weaknesses in the opposition are less.
Given Robertson doesn't want to be an assistant, I'd be surprised if he got there this time. Could be the Deans candidate this time around
Scott Robertson has as much International Head Coach experience as Ian Foster does. None.
ha ha ha, true of course. He's got more experience coaching the Crusaders than Henry did - does that count since we're considering weird statistics?
I reckon JJ and TB may be the front runners. International coaching experience, taking a motley crew to a Super title, would be an interesting appointment for sure.
Fossie seems loved by people who work with him (including Wayne Smith, whose opinion I really really respect), and may have become a good coach in the last 8 years. Then again, gut feel is gut feel... just never seemed to 'have it' as a coach.
Cheika also inspired loyalty and is loved by his players. Still a shit coach, being liked and even respected by people you have worked with doesn't mean that much at those level imo. Cheika took a side that was well coached, but hated their coach and was utterly disloyal, and used his Man management skills too get the team all pulling together. But once that initial burst of enthusiasm died, and his actual coaching was important, all down hill
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@Stargazer said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Kirwan said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
Is there anyone outside of the NZR senior leadership circle that genuinely thinks that Ian Foster is the best person for the job? His appointment would be the very definition of cronyism.
As would the inexperienced Robertson really.
Would it? How?
Canterbury cronyism.
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@taniwharugby said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Chris-B make sure you let us know when you should find out if you are successful
They said it will be a Thursday, but weren't specific about which one. I've sent them the link to my fern profile demonstrating years of expertise, so I'm expecting it's a foregone conclusion really.
Anyone know how you order a new Maserati?
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@Chris-B said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@taniwharugby said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Chris-B make sure you let us know when you should find out if you are successful
They said it will be a Thursday, but weren't specific about which one. I've sent them the link to my fern profile demonstrating years of expertise, so I'm expecting it's a foregone conclusion really.
Anyone know how you order a new Maserati?
Yup, just send me a few hundred grand and I'll get it done for you.
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@Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
Is there anyone outside of the NZR senior leadership circle that genuinely thinks that Ian Foster is the best person for the job? His appointment would be the very definition of cronyism.
Yes. Beauden Barrett is one.
Secondly, why is it cronyism? He is an incumbent hands on assistant coach. We’ve all been happy with the results of his work up to one game.
How about just focusing on ability rather than parochialism? -
@Chester-Draws said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@mariner4life said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@KiwiMurph said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
how underwhelming.
JJ had 10 years coaching Super rugby and won once.
True, but with the Highlanders.
Nah, it's not true. He coached the highlanders for about 5 or 6 seasons then went to Japan for a couple.
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@Crucial Wh.. wha.. what? Hold on, did you say happy with his work up to one game? Anyone can see the fails and decline in the ABs since the Lions tour. Crucial losses, failure to cope with the rush defense, selection confusion, lack of settled combinations, etc. Whether that is Foster's fault or not, he has been involved.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Crucial Wh.. wha.. what? Hold on, did you say happy with his work up to one game? Anyone can see the fails and decline in the ABs since the Lions tour. Crucial losses, failure to cope with the rush defense, selection confusion, lack of settled combinations, etc. Whether that is Foster's fault or not, he has been involved.
What I meant was that he has been part of a coaching team with a very high win % over a long period. There seems to be some strange idea that he has been a passenger there on mates rates.
I do agree that the ideas and ways may have run their course and this is a good opportunity for a refresh but it is bullshit to claim that Foster had not had a positive contribution over the last coaching period.
The players have often been quoted praising his work. No need to attack him to promote the candidates you prefer -
@Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
Is there anyone outside of the NZR senior leadership circle that genuinely thinks that Ian Foster is the best person for the job? His appointment would be the very definition of cronyism.
My biggest problem with Ian Foster is that I don't really see him as a leading Head Coach. He is better suited to being an Assistant Coach or a Director of Rugby. Honourable man, clever enough, but the Chiefs were clearly much better led and a more focused franchise with Dave Rennie at the helm.
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I never rated Mains as a coach but I agree with him on this.
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@Crucial said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
Like Hansen then?
There is a difference though, Hansen took over a team that came with an instruction manual and he probably had a hand in writing a third of it.
All but one of the leadership group were coming back and sans Kaino the entire spine of the team was too. There was a very strong case for succession at the time. The fact we capped four or potentially five 100 test ABs in 2013 (plus two more 50 test ABs including the second highest try scorer in AB history) perhaps made things easier than they otherwise would have been also. The argument against change were there a candidate stronger than Cotter would have been a Nucifora/Brumbies type situation.
This time they never fully figured it out, the captaincy is vacant and at various times over the next two years the most convenient meeting spot for leadership meetings will be Tokyo. Almost everything in terms of style of play including first-five and loose forward mix is up for grabs. If he is bringing institutional knowledge what is it? And what danger is there in rocking the boat - Hansen made multiple big calls in the past year that changed the entire composition of the side?
This is probably why I'm a big fan of Rennie getting the post. The ABs are at a very similar state as the Chiefs when he took over he has a bit of an island of misfit toys and pieces that while brilliant don't exactly go together. That and like Henry I would rather the head coach be overcooked than undercooked.
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@Crucial said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
I do agree that the ideas and ways may have run their course and this is a good opportunity for a refresh but it is bullshit to claim that Foster had not had a positive contribution over the last coaching period.
Pretty much spot-on.
If Foster has to take the blame for the losses, then he has to take credit for the wins as well - in particular the quarter-final against Ireland and Bledislow II this year.
A refresh is a great idea. But continuity has been pretty effective since 2007.
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@sparky said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
My biggest problem with Ian Foster is that I don't really see him as a leading Head Coach. He is better suited to being an Assistant Coach or a Director of Rugby
Sometimes an outstanding second-in-command can be the most important factor in success.
Seen plenty of occasions in business when the deputy head honcho left - or was promoted to no. 1 - and things fell apart.
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@Victor-Meldrew yep, wayne Smith seemed to do ok not running things...
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@Victor-Meldrew said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Crucial said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
I do agree that the ideas and ways may have run their course and this is a good opportunity for a refresh but it is bullshit to claim that Foster had not had a positive contribution over the last coaching period.
Pretty much spot-on.
If Foster has to take the blame for the losses, then he has to take credit for the wins as well - in particular the quarter-final against Ireland and Bledislow II this year.
A refresh is a great idea. Continuity has been pretty effective since 2007.
The difference is at the end of each of the past three cycles you would have judged the four years (either including or excluding the RWC) to have been a success (2008-11 borderline). This one wasn't.
If the next coach interviews with the board saying in the next four years I might drop two games to Wales, draw a three game series in 2021 at home to the English but don't worry it will all be worth it when we will get bronze in 2023... well that would be pretty dumb.
Not as dumb as turning up with Pat Lam as your assistant dumb, but pretty dumb.
