All Black Coach - Ian Foster
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@Crucial Wh.. wha.. what? Hold on, did you say happy with his work up to one game? Anyone can see the fails and decline in the ABs since the Lions tour. Crucial losses, failure to cope with the rush defense, selection confusion, lack of settled combinations, etc. Whether that is Foster's fault or not, he has been involved.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Crucial Wh.. wha.. what? Hold on, did you say happy with his work up to one game? Anyone can see the fails and decline in the ABs since the Lions tour. Crucial losses, failure to cope with the rush defense, selection confusion, lack of settled combinations, etc. Whether that is Foster's fault or not, he has been involved.
What I meant was that he has been part of a coaching team with a very high win % over a long period. There seems to be some strange idea that he has been a passenger there on mates rates.
I do agree that the ideas and ways may have run their course and this is a good opportunity for a refresh but it is bullshit to claim that Foster had not had a positive contribution over the last coaching period.
The players have often been quoted praising his work. No need to attack him to promote the candidates you prefer -
@Cantab79 said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
Is there anyone outside of the NZR senior leadership circle that genuinely thinks that Ian Foster is the best person for the job? His appointment would be the very definition of cronyism.
My biggest problem with Ian Foster is that I don't really see him as a leading Head Coach. He is better suited to being an Assistant Coach or a Director of Rugby. Honourable man, clever enough, but the Chiefs were clearly much better led and a more focused franchise with Dave Rennie at the helm.
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I never rated Mains as a coach but I agree with him on this.
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@Crucial said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
Like Hansen then?
There is a difference though, Hansen took over a team that came with an instruction manual and he probably had a hand in writing a third of it.
All but one of the leadership group were coming back and sans Kaino the entire spine of the team was too. There was a very strong case for succession at the time. The fact we capped four or potentially five 100 test ABs in 2013 (plus two more 50 test ABs including the second highest try scorer in AB history) perhaps made things easier than they otherwise would have been also. The argument against change were there a candidate stronger than Cotter would have been a Nucifora/Brumbies type situation.
This time they never fully figured it out, the captaincy is vacant and at various times over the next two years the most convenient meeting spot for leadership meetings will be Tokyo. Almost everything in terms of style of play including first-five and loose forward mix is up for grabs. If he is bringing institutional knowledge what is it? And what danger is there in rocking the boat - Hansen made multiple big calls in the past year that changed the entire composition of the side?
This is probably why I'm a big fan of Rennie getting the post. The ABs are at a very similar state as the Chiefs when he took over he has a bit of an island of misfit toys and pieces that while brilliant don't exactly go together. That and like Henry I would rather the head coach be overcooked than undercooked.
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@Crucial said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
I do agree that the ideas and ways may have run their course and this is a good opportunity for a refresh but it is bullshit to claim that Foster had not had a positive contribution over the last coaching period.
Pretty much spot-on.
If Foster has to take the blame for the losses, then he has to take credit for the wins as well - in particular the quarter-final against Ireland and Bledislow II this year.
A refresh is a great idea. But continuity has been pretty effective since 2007.
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@sparky said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
My biggest problem with Ian Foster is that I don't really see him as a leading Head Coach. He is better suited to being an Assistant Coach or a Director of Rugby
Sometimes an outstanding second-in-command can be the most important factor in success.
Seen plenty of occasions in business when the deputy head honcho left - or was promoted to no. 1 - and things fell apart.
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@Victor-Meldrew yep, wayne Smith seemed to do ok not running things...
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@Victor-Meldrew said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Crucial said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
I do agree that the ideas and ways may have run their course and this is a good opportunity for a refresh but it is bullshit to claim that Foster had not had a positive contribution over the last coaching period.
Pretty much spot-on.
If Foster has to take the blame for the losses, then he has to take credit for the wins as well - in particular the quarter-final against Ireland and Bledislow II this year.
A refresh is a great idea. Continuity has been pretty effective since 2007.
The difference is at the end of each of the past three cycles you would have judged the four years (either including or excluding the RWC) to have been a success (2008-11 borderline). This one wasn't.
If the next coach interviews with the board saying in the next four years I might drop two games to Wales, draw a three game series in 2021 at home to the English but don't worry it will all be worth it when we will get bronze in 2023... well that would be pretty dumb.
Not as dumb as turning up with Pat Lam as your assistant dumb, but pretty dumb.
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JJ and Brown is so clearly the best option. It will reflect extremely poorly on the NZRU if they aren't appointed
Joseph will an outstanding front person for the ABs. He looks like an adult.
Robertson looks like too much of a lad still. Fine for Canterbury and the Crusaders. But not for the ABs. And he isn't proven outside the Canterbury / Crusaders environment. He needs to leave and get some overseas experience. And hopefully mature a bit
Another factor. Can Robinson relate to all players from throughout NZ. Rather than reverting back to a Crusaders team. Has he this maturity (I doubt it)
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@rotated said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Crucial said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
Like Hansen then?
There is a difference though, Hansen took over a team that came with an instruction manual and he probably had a hand in writing a third of it.
All but one of the leadership group were coming back and sans Kaino the entire spine of the team was too. There was a very strong case for succession at the time. The fact we capped four or potentially five 100 test ABs in 2013 (plus two more 50 test ABs including the second highest try scorer in AB history) perhaps made things easier than they otherwise would have been also. The argument against change were there a candidate stronger than Cotter would have been a Nucifora/Brumbies type situation.
This time they never fully figured it out, the captaincy is vacant and at various times over the next two years the most convenient meeting spot for leadership meetings will be Tokyo. Almost everything in terms of style of play including first-five and loose forward mix is up for grabs. If he is bringing institutional knowledge what is it? And what danger is there in rocking the boat - Hansen made multiple big calls in the past year that changed the entire composition of the side?
This is probably why I'm a big fan of Rennie getting the post. The ABs are at a very similar state as the Chiefs when he took over he has a bit of an island of misfit toys and pieces that while brilliant don't exactly go together. That and like Henry I would rather the head coach be overcooked than undercooked.
I don't disagree with that, I came around a while back that refresh is possibly better than continuity this time.
My gripe was people saying that the reason Foster shouldn't get the job was because he had a poor record as a coach before being involved at an international level. The comparison was Hansen, who also had a poor track record and ended up doing OK.
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@Winger said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
JJ and Brown is so clearly the best option. It will reflect extremely poorly on the NZRU if they aren't appointed
Joseph will an outstanding front person for the ABs. He looks like an adult.
Robertson looks like too much of a lad still. Fine for Canterbury and the Crusaders. But not for the ABs. And he isn't proven outside the Canterbury / Crusaders environment. He needs to leave and get some overseas experience. And hopefully mature a bit
Another factor. Can Robinson relate to all players from throughout NZ. Rather than reverting back to a Crusaders team. Has he this maturity (I doubt it)
I don't care about how they look but do agree that if a JJ/Brown combo are in the mix I would take a bit of persuading to get away from them.
I don't even know if Rennie has applied but Rennie/O'Halloran is also an exciting mix (although without the visible high level achievements) -
@Crucial said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Winger said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
JJ and Brown is so clearly the best option. It will reflect extremely poorly on the NZRU if they aren't appointed
Joseph will an outstanding front person for the ABs. He looks like an adult.
Robertson looks like too much of a lad still. Fine for Canterbury and the Crusaders. But not for the ABs. And he isn't proven outside the Canterbury / Crusaders environment. He needs to leave and get some overseas experience. And hopefully mature a bit
Another factor. Can Robinson relate to all players from throughout NZ. Rather than reverting back to a Crusaders team. Has he this maturity (I doubt it)
I don't care about how they look but do agree that if a JJ/Brown combo are in the mix I would take a bit of persuading to get away from them.
I don't even know if Rennie has applied but Rennie/O'Halloran is also an exciting mix (although without the visible high level achievements)It is important
verse this
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@Winger said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
JJ and Brown is so clearly the best option. It will reflect extremely poorly on the NZRU if they aren't appointed
Joseph will an outstanding front person for the ABs. He looks like an adult.
Robertson looks like too much of a lad still. Fine for Canterbury and the Crusaders. But not for the ABs. And he isn't proven outside the Canterbury / Crusaders environment. He needs to leave and get some overseas experience. And hopefully mature a bit
Another factor. Can Robinson relate to all players from throughout NZ. Rather than reverting back to a Crusaders team. Has he this maturity (I doubt it)
Yo say this based on an intimate knowledge of the applicants, their applications and propossals?
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@Winger said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Crucial said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Winger said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
JJ and Brown is so clearly the best option. It will reflect extremely poorly on the NZRU if they aren't appointed
Joseph will an outstanding front person for the ABs. He looks like an adult.
Robertson looks like too much of a lad still. Fine for Canterbury and the Crusaders. But not for the ABs. And he isn't proven outside the Canterbury / Crusaders environment. He needs to leave and get some overseas experience. And hopefully mature a bit
Another factor. Can Robinson relate to all players from throughout NZ. Rather than reverting back to a Crusaders team. Has he this maturity (I doubt it)
I don't care about how they look but do agree that if a JJ/Brown combo are in the mix I would take a bit of persuading to get away from them.
I don't even know if Rennie has applied but Rennie/O'Halloran is also an exciting mix (although without the visible high level achievements)It is important
verse this
Yep.
JJ would NEVER wear a track suit.
Robertson would NEVER wear a suit and tie.Coz what they wear is the most important consideration.
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It certainly helps if the person looks the part. That JJ certainly does. He looks the part 100% and has all the requirement. Including not being from Canterbury
And SBW will give him a tick too.and he got an outstanding assistant in Tony Brown.
To me its almost a no-brainer.
Compare to Robertson below. smart vs scruffy
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Quite Happy to leave Razor to rebuild the Crusaders who ever gets the job has a hard job ahead.
It will make or break the coaching unit, its never easy after a WC failure( and not winning is always a failure in The ABs eyes)
The way we play the game over the next 4 years is going to be mighty interesting because whoever comes in better not wast 4 years with the wrong gameplays and selections. -
@Chris said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
Quite Happy to leave Razor to rebuild the Crusaders who ever gets the job has a hard job ahead.
It will make or break the coaching unit, its never easy after a WC failure( and not winning is always a failure in The ABs eyes)
The way we play the game over the next 4 years is going to be mighty interesting because whoever comes in better not wast 4 years with the wrong gameplays and selections.Would be interesting if the JJ/Brown model was to apply the speed approach they used with Japan along with a stronger set piece and defence (and higher player quality). It is very close to the Hansen/Foster design though. We just didn't execute it well at times.
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@Crucial said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
@Chris said in [Poll] Next All Black Coach:
Quite Happy to leave Razor to rebuild the Crusaders who ever gets the job has a hard job ahead.
It will make or break the coaching unit, its never easy after a WC failure( and not winning is always a failure in The ABs eyes)
The way we play the game over the next 4 years is going to be mighty interesting because whoever comes in better not wast 4 years with the wrong gameplays and selections.Would be interesting if the JJ/Brown model was to apply the speed approach they used with Japan along with a stronger set piece and defence (and higher player quality). It is very close to the Hansen/Foster design though. We just didn't execute it well at times.
It's all very well to be able to play fast. But sometimes you have to play direct and a little bit ugly, so the new coach needs to be able to tighten up our play as well
