TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98)
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@gt12 Thanks for doing the re-watch on Frizell. Seems like he was pretty solid, if not spectacular - and given the place where we find ourselves in terms of sixes, that's not to be sniffed at. Also a good effort to go nearly 80 minutes in a test on the back of 40 minutes of club rugby.
On Franks, his main contribution might be at the scrum, but from what I can see he's pretty excellent at it. Very rare that he gives away a scrum penalty or goes backwards - whereas at the Crusaders, Crockett, Moody and others give/gave away plenty on the loosehead side. Owen can catch and pass - not sure he can run, I don't recall him charging upfield ball in hand.
I guess a key question is whether the next best tighthead can consistently hold up in the scrum against fresh, elite props. One penalty is worth a lot of prop running metres!
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I doubt it will happen, but I'd like to see Papali'i get a start in the Bledisloe
Brodie's injury meant we had to hold back one forward reserve. So Dalton only got 3 mins at the end. I think he's worth a look.
However I expect him to get cut. Meanwhile people who were tried and failed will get retained.
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@gt12 My issue with Frizell is after three years of watching him play, I can't remember ever seeing him make a dominant tackle. Kaino used to put in at least a couple per game.He lacks physicality imo. I really hope they give Paps a start against oz, his workrate is huge and his tackling stats are probably the best in NZ.
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Did you watch any landers games early in the season? He was huge, hammering guys and running well.
He put one good shot on Vermeulen on the weekend too.
Thatās not to say that I think heās necessarily the answer but I think he can hit hard.
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Will rewatch the game and look for that hit. Can't recall him making big hits for the Landers tbh, but I will take your word for it. Still think Paps will offer a much higher workrate and is a far superior defender, but is not as good a lineout forward as Frizell.
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@Duluth said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
I doubt it will happen, but I'd like to see Papali'i get a start in the Bledisloe
Brodie's injury meant we had to hold back one forward reserve. So Dalton only got 3 mins at the end. I think he's worth a look.
However I expect him to get cut. Meanwhile people who were tried and failed will get retained.
Just say his name!
If Hansen and co are still undecided on who their no.6 is then they should retain all of them and give them a chance to perform or fail in the Aust tests. I'm also resigned to the fact that both Papalii and Jacobson will be cut. There is nothing to be gained to include Todd in the 35 if Cane and Ardie are both going to be in the 23. He's a known quantity and the focus should be on the other side of the scrum.
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Thatās exactly the question. Laulala is really a similar set piece specialist but often gets the bench (Argentina is a good example), where canāt really make much impact. Also I understand why they put Ofa at LH in Argentina, but he might be our second best tighthead. Iād have liked to see him get a chance, because Taāavao off the bench at TH looks the ticket. I guess right now they are planning for no Karl T which means Ofa and Angus off the bench.. which again, is why Karlās injury is a shame.
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@gt12 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Thatās exactly the question. Laulala is really a similar set piece specialist but often gets the bench (Argentina is a good example), where canāt really make much impact. Also I understand why they put Ofa at LH in Argentina, but he might be our second best tighthead. Iād have liked to see him get a chance, because Taāavao off the bench at TH looks the ticket. I guess right now they are planning for no Karl T which means Ofa and Angus off the bench.. which again, is why Karlās injury is a shame.
How are these other guys as scrummagers compared to Franks who is still arguably the worlds best in this facet along with that Irish fella.
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@akan004 said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
Will rewatch the game and look for that hit. Can't recall him making big hits for the Landers tbh, but I will take your word for it. Still think Paps will offer a much higher workrate and is a far superior defender, but is not as good a lineout forward as Frizell.
I kind of agree - Paps is class, but they havenāt given him any chances. Check 2:15-2:20 after we kick off. He stops Vermeulen pretty well.
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@Frank said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone. -
@Frank said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B
A long time ago, Owen Franks used to specialize in making monstrous hits on other forwards where he would drive upwards and hit them just below the shoulders.. It was quite impressive. Not sure where that has gone.Probably too risky for getting a high tackle nowadays
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@Machpants
the most important part is hit em in the head! they go down reeeeeal easy. Just wrap your arms tho! -
@Frank MN5's post might be the answer to that.
The Franks boys used to be renowned for their work at the ruck - TBH I don't really watch much of what happens away from the ball so I can't tell you whether he's still a menace there.
I'd back Owen to be more useful in a driving maul than Ofa.
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Ben Ryan: Retallick case is why ruck laws must change
Sevens supremo Ben Ryan says the shoulder injury to All Blacks lock Brodie Retallick is a good test case for why rugby union's ruck laws need changing.
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Again? That didnāt take long! Maybe next time he should support Barcelona.
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@Chris-B said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Frank MN5's post might be the answer to that.
The Franks boys used to be renowned for their work at the ruck - TBH I don't really watch much of what happens away from the ball so I can't tell you whether he's still a menace there.
I'd back Owen to be more useful in a driving maul than Ofa.
Why?
Lomax was the best TH in the first half of super rugby then dropped off and right at the end his scrummaging mysteriously turned to shit. While Ta'avao built and built throughout the season, I don't see a problem at all with his scrummaging these days - doesn't he also adequately cover LH also or is he considered a bit over tall?
Ofa doesn't seem to get done on the TH side either, so it's tough to see just what the value of Franks is.
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@Bones said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Chris-B said in TRC: The All Blacks against the Springboks (version 98):
@Frank MN5's post might be the answer to that.
The Franks boys used to be renowned for their work at the ruck - TBH I don't really watch much of what happens away from the ball so I can't tell you whether he's still a menace there.
I'd back Owen to be more useful in a driving maul than Ofa.
Why?
Lomax was the best TH in the first half of super rugby then dropped off and right at the end his scrummaging mysteriously turned to shit. While Ta'avao built and built throughout the season, I don't see a problem at all with his scrummaging these days - doesn't he also adequately cover LH also or is he considered a bit over tall?
Ofa doesn't seem to get done on the TH side either, so it's tough to see just what the value of Franks is.
Ofa gets done on the tighthead side a few times each season. The blues v brumbies game this year immediately springs to mind.
Also, compare the crusaders maul defence (one of the best in the comp) to the blues (perennially useless) for the answer to your āwhyā. Yes I know thatās not down to one player, but the tight five are responsible.
