Springboks V All Blacks
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@mariner4life said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@sammyc said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@akan004 said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@stargazer said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@akan004 Sam missed games due to a head knock and the mandatory rest games. He played in 14 of the 19 Crusaders games. That's less than Scott Barrett (also in minutes).
What about his minutes last year for the Crusaders when he didn't have the head knocks? I also was critical of Shag's selection of only three locks this year. Felt he had picked too many loosies and should have selected an extra lock instead.
At the risk of being labeled an apologist.
So you’re saying he’s tired from super rugby last year??
APOL...
sorry sorryActually, it could be a build up of a couple of years' work? How much did he have off last year? And i doubt he's the only one. But Sam feels ever-present from about 2011, that's a lot of wear and tear on a guy who puts himself about like he does, at all levels.
I think he’s always been less effective without retallick next to him.
In my opinion Whitelocks best attributes are his work at lineouts, restarts, defense and cleanouts. Retalick has always been a much better ball runner.
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@sammyc said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@mariner4life said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@sammyc said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@akan004 said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@stargazer said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@akan004 Sam missed games due to a head knock and the mandatory rest games. He played in 14 of the 19 Crusaders games. That's less than Scott Barrett (also in minutes).
What about his minutes last year for the Crusaders when he didn't have the head knocks? I also was critical of Shag's selection of only three locks this year. Felt he had picked too many loosies and should have selected an extra lock instead.
At the risk of being labeled an apologist.
So you’re saying he’s tired from super rugby last year??
APOL...
sorry sorryActually, it could be a build up of a couple of years' work? How much did he have off last year? And i doubt he's the only one. But Sam feels ever-present from about 2011, that's a lot of wear and tear on a guy who puts himself about like he does, at all levels.
I think he’s always been less effective without retallick next to him.
In my opinion Whitelocks best attributes are his work at lineouts, restarts, defense and cleanouts. Retalick has always been a much better ball runner.
yep, agree, and that's why they are a great combo. It's the last 2 that were an issue for me on the weekend.
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He was quiet, but the (limited) stats show the he contributed pretty well by taking on some other duties too - most passes (5) by a forward, second most metres (12) off five runs, with 10 tackles (second highest) and two misses, with no penalities. It fucks me off how they don't add line outs won by the jumper, or kick off receipts, but he was good there.
Interestingly, it looks like Scott Barrett couldn't get the running game going that we look for from our other lock - six runs, five metres, with one penalty, 10 tackles, with two misses. Much of this should be put at SA defense too, they were good. Nevertheless, we are just a bit limited without BBBR there - he contributes so much, as he should, being probably the best player on the planet.
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This place gets more interesting when we throw in a few less than convincing games .
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@nevorian at Super Level I think Sam does have a good running game, while the closer confines of test rugby having him and BBBR together brings out the best in both and Sam not needing to take on that load.
Have we had many AB games with BBBR starting without Whitelock?
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I'm not sure, but BBBR's win percentage is the highest of current players from the 'top' 15. He's only lost three times (England, Australia, Lions).
Edit: I can't get stas guru to show me games for each without the other.
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@akan004 said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@stargazer said in Springboks V All Blacks:
@akan004 Sam missed games due to a head knock and the mandatory rest games. He played in 14 of the 19 Crusaders games. That's less than Scott Barrett (also in minutes).
What about his minutes last year for the Crusaders when he didn't have the head knocks? I also was critical of Shag's selection of only three locks this year. Felt he had picked too many loosies and should have selected an extra lock instead.
Those stats aren't live anymore on the Fox Sports website, but he missed the games against the Bulls (away) and Hurricanes (home) due to a suspension and he came of the bench in the away game against Hurricanes. Don't know whether he missed other games.
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@rapido said in Springboks V All Blacks:
How the Springboks blew a 17-point lead
The All Blacks had no right to win the match based on the first sixty minutes, but did, while the Springboks will have to learn the cruelest of lessons after a poor showing in the last quarter.
This would be a Houdini-act if not for the fact that the Springboks not only handed the keys to the handcuffs around the All Blacks’ wrists, they unlocked the cuffs for them.
Waaaait aaaa minnnute....if the ABs had the keys, how did the Springboks unlock the cuffs? This is all I really got out of the article.
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@gt12 given he missed the loss to SA a few weeks back, both missed the Chicago test...
did BBBR miss any of the Lions?
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@gt12 said in Springboks V All Blacks:
I'm not sure, but BBBR's win percentage is the highest of current players from the 'top' 15. He's only lost three times (England, Australia, Lions).
Edit: I can't get stas guru to show me games for each without the other.
Ok, here it seems that they've only played together 64 times, for three losses. I can't figure out how to add only one of them without the other.
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We've played four matches in the last five years without either, for three wins (Ireland of course is the loss).
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Seems like no. Matches they've played together in the last five years - two losses, two draws.
Since the last WC, we've lost once and drawn once when we have both playing - both of those were against the Lions. They're that valuable.
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In the Mo'ouga v Barrett debate.
There was a moment after Ritchie had come on that I think i have been converted.
Barrett was playing fullback and went into first receiver and put up an aimless defensive bomb with no chasers and Damian Willemse stepped Crotty on the kick return.
It was a "things make you go hmmmmm" moment.
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@chris-b said in Springboks V All Blacks:
Hansen (and Henry before him) have constantly beaten the "You can't beat experience in the big games" drum, so I reckon the chances of them heading to RWC with their first choice starting XV including all of Mo'unga, ALB, Goodhue and Rieko is about nil.
You know how some of us are reminded of a game won 6-3 vs Australia before the 1991 RWC.
Well the result of that game was to enter the Cup using experience as the primary selection criterion. It turns out, that the experienced players were past their prime though, and the strategy failed badly.
We've also had quite a few examples of complete novices turning it on for us at RWC games. NMS last one.
Experience is good. Except when the other player is better.
Shag uses it because he's not stupid. It allows him to justify the player he's already picked, rather than a guy who's having a single stellar season. Saying he values experience means he can keep a settled squad. But he's only too happy to ditch experience when he prefers someone, and elevate a DMac say to start over much more experienced players.
Surely then the solution anyway is to play Mo'unga more. Otherwise we are one injury away from him having to pull out an Aaron Cruden in RWC knockout stages -- and while it just worked for us that time, we got lucky.
Beauden Barrett hasn't covered himself with glory in the tight games. The solution isn't to keep playing him and hope it'll all just come right.
On the others --
I personally think ALB has plenty enough experience.
You're going to be a lone voice here suggesting Goodhue isn't up to it.
Ioane is more experienced than Frizzell at least. For #6 all our options really lack experience, so I'd pick the best one, not one with a trifle more experience.
