Game of 3 halves: All Blacks v Canterbury v Otago
-
@bones said in Game of 3 halves: All Blacks v Canterbury v Otago:
@chester-draws Smith, Jane?
Thanks.
Jane almost 32 years, so yes. Not sure how I missed him.
Smith 32, and still going. I confess I put him in the "winger, but really second fullback" rather than pure winger category.
It's impressive how many great AB wingers don't make it to play in their 30's though. The legs give out it seems. A few of the power players can still barge over aged 28 or 29, but then are gone. The speed merchants drop off a bit younger.
-
@chester-draws Billy Slater on the other hand is 35 and is as fast as he has ever been. So it is possible to maintain your speed well into your thirties if he's anything to go by.
-
@akan004 said in Game of 3 halves: All Blacks v Canterbury v Otago:
@chester-draws Billy Slater on the other hand is 35 and is as fast as he has ever been. So it is possible to maintain your speed well into your thirties if he's anything to go by.
off the mark still quick , no where near as quick going the full distance
-
I wasn't aware Billy Slater was a winger. Or a union player (quite a few league wingers are really slow by Union standards, it's quite a different position -- NMS won't be taking many hit-ups). Also, Billy's a freak.
I found my own rugby union winger counter-example in Eric Rush, so I know guys in their 30s can still be pace merchants.
But it's very rare for a guy. And it's particularly rare after serious injury for a guy to get his full pace back. Not so bad if he has power (e.g. Sivivatu), a boot (Dagg) or might be required elsewhere (Ben Smith), but Nehe is only a stepper.
The upside of having NMS in the squad is low -- he might get his mojo back and be a capable replacement if the top wingers are injured. The downside is someone with a lot of promise, the next Reiko perhaps, is missing out to a guy who shouldn't be there.
I understand the AB selectors are loyal, but Nehe's not really been part of the team for years now. Time for them to move on.
-
Doug Howlett was 29 when he last played for the ABs. IMO he was certainly quick enough and good enough to keep being an All Black when he took the big OS offer post RWC.
-
@act-crusader said in Game of 3 halves: All Blacks v Canterbury v Otago:
Doug Howlett was 29 when he last played for the ABs. IMO he was certainly quick enough and good enough to keep being an All Black when he took the big OS offer post RWC.
Siti played some non RWC games for the ABs in 2011 at 29 also.
The issue isn't that those late 20s wingers couldn't have still worn black without embarrassing themselves, it's that the competition in NZ for those spots is so fierce and margin for drop-off so small that once they start to decline a couple of % physically there are a dozen guys in their early 20s ready to take their spot.
Leaving the "second fullbacks" to one side - is there an AB winger in the pro era who didn't break out and peak in their first or second season and then decline (at varying rates) from there?
-
-
@milk said in Game of 3 halves: All Blacks v Canterbury v Otago:
Their try scoring always seems to drop off dramatically. Maybe other teams start working them out and the space appears elsewhere.
There was an interview with Ted late in his tenure where he explained he picks wings based on their core role which exclusively their ability to beat their man 1-on-1 using one of three skills - speed, step or power. Having one of those is great, two is better.
It's just a case of losing yard and instead of beating your man 75% of the time you can only beat them 50% of the time. Instantly you just got 33% worse at the job, even if the peripheral stuff is the same or is even improving.
Sounds simplistic but if you look at a guy like Cullen (admittedly not a wing) who went from ethereal to replaceable simply losing a step or two through injury - literally nothing else mattered.
The only guys whose careers kicked on multiple seasons after losing that ability were second fullbacks like Jane/Dagg and Siti who had that unique first receiver type role - and in all cases they weren't first string wings.
-
@rotated There's quite a small set of people who played a lot at wing for the ABs in the pro era.
I think quite a few of them called time on their own AB careers, when they could easily have played more tests - Goldie, Howlett, Rico Gear, Piutau.
Tana moved to the midfield.
Jonah got sick.
Zac drank too much.
Injuries put paid to Sivivatu and Kahui.
Rok and Julian legitimately lost their pace, I think.
Those who had long careers and/or are still in the frame include Muliaina (mainly fllback), Jane, Ben Smith, Dagg, Naholo, NMS.
A heap of others who played a handful of games - Osborne, Ralph, Vidiri, Berryman, Reihana, Randle, Toeava, Hamilton, Wulf, Hosea Gear, Masaga, Ranger, Halai, Duffie.
-
@chris-b said in Game of 3 halves: All Blacks v Canterbury v Otago:
Injuries put paid to Sivivatu and Kahui.
Sivi wasn't injured and played well in the early 2011 tests. It still annoys me that Henry selected Guildford and then H Gear (injury replacement) ahead of him at RWC 2011.
-
@bovidae I guess he went from being a fixture in 2009, to injured in 2010, to dumped after a couple of tests in 2011.
I can't really recall the reasons given for his 2011 exclusion, but I can remember a lot of people being surprised that Zac made the cut for the RWC.
-
@chris-b Part of the reason for the dropping of Rokocoko and Sivivatu was their vulnerability under the high ball, which was the main SA tactic in 2009-2011. That was more relevant to Rok than Sivi and led to the emergence of Jane, Dagg and then Kahui being selected as a winger at the RWC.
His omission can't have been due to any off-field problems either, given the story about Zac in Aust immediately before the RWC. So I can only assume it was because Sivivatu had signalled he was going to France later that year and coin flip didn't go in his favour.
-
@chris-b said in Game of 3 halves: All Blacks v Canterbury v Otago:
I can't really recall the reasons given for his 2011 exclusion, but I can remember a lot of people being surprised that Zac made the cut for the RWC.
The other weird thing was the RWC squad was announced before the ABs final Tri Nations test that year in Brisbane - in which Zac had a shocker - he was lucky the squad was already picked!
-
@kiwimurph said in Game of 3 halves: All Blacks v Canterbury v Otago:
@chris-b said in Game of 3 halves: All Blacks v Canterbury v Otago:
I can't really recall the reasons given for his 2011 exclusion, but I can remember a lot of people being surprised that Zac made the cut for the RWC.
The other weird thing was the RWC squad was announced before the ABs final Tri Nations test that year in Brisbane - in which Zac had a shocker - he was lucky the squad was already picked!
True, but I think there were deadlines outside of AB control that all RWC squads had to be submitted.
-
@bovidae said in Game of 3 halves: All Blacks v Canterbury v Otago:
@chris-b Part of the reason for the dropping of Rokocoko and Sivivatu was their vulnerability under the high ball, which was the main SA tactic in 2009-2011. That was more relevant to Rok than Sivi and led to the emergence of Jane, Dagg and then Kahui being selected as a winger at the RWC.
His omission can't have been due to any off-field problems either, given the story about Zac in Aust immediately before the RWC. So I can only assume it was because Sivivatu had signalled he was going to France later that year and coin flip didn't go in his favour.
But wasn’t there some off field issues nonetheless that may have been a contributing factor?
