Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?
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@taniwharugby said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@cgrant he has plenty enough pace, he is a 13, not a wing or FB; showed it a number of times in M10 cup against quick players, that LIons player was pretty damn quick and had a good angle.
That said, I've said he could be an option at 12, has the defensive game and good distribution, just lacking a good enough kicking game.
I reckon his pace is fine.
I like him at centre because his real strength of running excellent lines and hitting the gap is better utilised at centre than 2nd 5.
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@cgrant said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@stargazer said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
The "playing behind a dominant pack" argument has been over-used, when talking about Mo'unga as an AB first five-eighth. In some instances, it will give him more time to make decisions, but he still has to make the right decisions. And some of the other great stuff he does on the field, has nothing to do with playing behind a dominant pack. Example:
The Havili's try makes me wonder if Goodhue's future would be at 2nd Five Eight instead of centre where his lack of speed could be crippling. ALB or Ioane would have scored this one.
ALB? He’s improved a little since then, but his lack of pace and QE2 turning, against the Lions was one of the bad memories I have from that series.
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ALB is certainly a bit jinkier on his feet than Goodhue, but Goodhue is quick enough to have been in and around the NZ sevens in the past, and last year it was a toss up whether he or Timanivalu played wing. Ultimately though I'm not worried if our centre can't hare away once through a gap, as long as they can find their outsides.
On Mo'unga, he played a fair bit of fullback for Canterbury two or three years ago. Couldn't hurt for the ABs to tap into that ability if it helps their bench make up. Oh and by the way, you don't tend to hide poor tacklers at fullback.
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@shark said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?.. Oh and by the way, you don't tend to hide poor tacklers at fullback.
Good point, where do you hide a poor tackler. Look and see where Quade stands I guess.
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@catogrande said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@shark said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?.. Oh and by the way, you don't tend to hide poor tacklers at fullback.
Good point, where do you hide a poor tackler. Look and see where Quade stands I guess.
Beaudy was a turnstile when he started. It's fixable - more about attitude that anything else. BB may not be awesome, but he defends in the right place and has developed his game massively there.
RM should do the same
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@nzzp I'd not seen that of Barrett, he always looked pretty complete to me, goal kicking aside. Mind you we don't get to see a lot of NZ rugby up here unless you really search it out. The internationals for sure and a bit of SR but not much else.
It's fair to say that you guys have been blessed with your options at 10 for some time and, going on the SR final, Mounga looks like to goods too.
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@catogrande said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
It's fair to say that you guys have been blessed with your options at 10 for some time and, going on the SR final, Mounga looks like to goods too.
cheers @Catogrande
they may look the finished product, but there was a lot of debate here in NZ about (initially) his ability to tackle, and (for some time) his ability to drive a team around the park. The 2017 Lions did very well to exploit his weaknesses in Tests 2 and 3 with a really good rush defence. Unlocking that at the top level is pretty important.
Mounga is a real talent, and I'm stoked he's stepping up, but Test rugby is a different game. Same way BLAM isn't even in the conversation, despite being one of the leading try scorers this year
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not sure 'hiding' a 10 at the back is the right way to describe it, in my view when a 10 drops back, often it is more so they can field the kicks and assess options to go forward again as the 10 is usually your 'general' anyway, so they assess options and look to attack or kick for territory, and in both those situations, having your 10 back there to make that decision is usually the best for the team.
As a defender, why would you want a poor defender as your last line of defence? How often is a FB called upon to make a covering tackle, surely you want a good defender there when on defence.
I think it just suits a game plan to have your orchestrator at the back more of then then not.
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@taniwharugby said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
As a defender, why would you want a poor defender as your last line of defence? How often is a FB called upon to make a covering tackle, surely you want a good defender there when on defence.
cough Kurtley Beale cough
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@nepia said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
The who should start at 10 thread seems to have partly morphed based on franchise loyalties.
This adjusted sentence reflects every rugby thread on here. ever
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@mariner4life said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@nepia said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
The who should start at 10 thread seems to have partly morphed based on franchise loyalties.
This adjusted sentence reflects every rugby thread on here. ever
Or Nepia’s case, where can I work in a reference to Hammer or defend Weepu or Hawkes Bay
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@act-crusader said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@mariner4life said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@nepia said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
The who should start at 10 thread seems to have partly morphed based on franchise loyalties.
This adjusted sentence reflects every rugby thread on here. ever
Or Nepia’s case, where can I work in a reference to Hammer or defend Weepu or Hawkes Bay
Do you conflate me with someone else some times, I was never more of a Weepu defender than others on here, even though he did play Hawkes Bay at age group level and the Hammettuer chased him away because the Hammettuer is of course a nincompoop.
There's your BINGO.
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@nepia said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@act-crusader said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@mariner4life said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@nepia said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
The who should start at 10 thread seems to have partly morphed based on franchise loyalties.
This adjusted sentence reflects every rugby thread on here. ever
Or Nepia’s case, where can I work in a reference to Hammer or defend Weepu or Hawkes Bay
Do you conflate me with someone else some times, I was never more of a Weepu defender than others on here, even though he did play Hawkes Bay at age group level and the Hammettuer chased him away because the Hammettuer is of course a nincompoop.
There's your BINGO.
Far. King. Bull. Shit. you weren't.
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@mariner4life said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@nepia said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@act-crusader said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@mariner4life said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@nepia said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
The who should start at 10 thread seems to have partly morphed based on franchise loyalties.
This adjusted sentence reflects every rugby thread on here. ever
Or Nepia’s case, where can I work in a reference to Hammer or defend Weepu or Hawkes Bay
Do you conflate me with someone else some times, I was never more of a Weepu defender than others on here, even though he did play Hawkes Bay at age group level and the Hammettuer chased him away because the Hammettuer is of course a nincompoop.
There's your BINGO.
Far. King. Bull. Shit. you weren't.
Grrrr. TBF, I did get pleasure when fat Weepu was getting selected over Angela (even though I would have been happy with late career Ellis actually being in the ABs).
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Dagg was a great fullback, but his tackling was an appalling weakness.
In the end it cost him his spot there, but he lasted years.
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@catogrande said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
@nzzp I'd not seen that of Barrett, he always looked pretty complete to me, goal kicking aside. Mind you we don't get to see a lot of NZ rugby up here unless you really search it out. The internationals for sure and a bit of SR but not much else.
It's fair to say that you guys have been blessed with your options at 10 for some time and, going on the SR final, Mounga looks like to goods too.
Beaudy's defence was terrible. I think a classic example was in that 38-27 game in South Africa at Ellis Park where he got trampled by de Villiers (and then returned the favour 5 minutes later).
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@taniwharugby said in Who should start at 10 in Bledisloe I?:
not sure 'hiding' a 10 at the back is the right way to describe it, in my view when a 10 drops back, often it is more so they can field the kicks and assess options to go forward again as the 10 is usually your 'general' anyway, so they assess options and look to attack or kick for territory, and in both those situations, having your 10 back there to make that decision is usually the best for the team.
As a defender, why would you want a poor defender as your last line of defence? How often is a FB called upon to make a covering tackle, surely you want a good defender there when on defence.
I think it just suits a game plan to have your orchestrator at the back more of then then not.
Agree with you in open play but I think people are alluding to the times on set piece defence where the defence is realigned without the 10 in place. After a phase or two it morphs into your description.
