Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF
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Missed tackle stats are one thing but how/why they are missing tackles is more important.
It’s interesting when you look back at stats alone there are a few quality centres that had relatively high missed tackle counts. Kahui for example, even Conrad.
There’s not a rugby player on this earth that will ever not miss a tackle and yes the midfield is tough place to defend, but you know when someone’s not moving well or shoots out of the line and doesn’t read the play. Laumape, Reiko and Jordie have some ways to go when it comes to those aspects.
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@act-crusader not to mention how often a player mis-reads a play or is too slow to react, and the attacker waltzes past them (not a miss for them in stats) this player then beats the 2nd line of defence and the FB or winger gets a missed tackle stat, despite it not really being his fault.
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@taniwharugby said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
@act-crusader not to mention how often a player mis-reads a play or is too slow to react, and the attacker waltzes past them (not a miss for them in stats) this player then beats the 2nd line of defence and the FB or winger gets a missed tackle stat, despite it not really being his fault.
Agree TR. Just on that, that is one of Jordie’s real strengths in defence. He’s an excellent cover tackler (as is his brother). They have the combination of good anticipation and speed to cover ground and run a good angle. Beauden one of the best I’ve ever seen.
DMac isn’t too bad either. Havili ok and improving. He’s a better front on tackler and probably doesn’t have the pace of those other 3.
Dan Carter (remember that guy) was a damn good 12 because his defence was superb. Copy book tackling technique and good eye for reading the play. He didn’t make every tackle but he rarely got caught out of position.
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@act-crusader I don't think Conrad has ever been that high in missed tackles, at least compared to the volume of tackles he made. I followed his stats for years and his tackle completion % was consistently around 89%- 90%. Honestly, it rarely went lower or higher than that, which I found fascinating.
I remember when there use to be debates here on Conrad vs Kahui, and the tackle stats came out and Kahui had more missed tackles than Conrad, but Conrad attempted more than twice as many tackles. Conrad would be in my shortlist for GOAT defender.
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@rocky-rockbottom said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
ps changed my profile pic in solidarity with my southern freak brothers
Change it back to your Bloos logo ya freak
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Is that the same as @SammyC 's? If so we could get some amusing cases of mistaken identity
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@mariner4life haha I only just realised it wasnt @SammyC and was thinking I am certain that was your avatar already!
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@rocky-rockbottom said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
we could get some amusing cases of mistaken identity
it's gonna be weird getting thought of as someone who makes sense for 1 or 2 minute spells
I'm looking forward to when the cantab mafia round on Sammy when he declares Akira Ioane to be waaaay better than Luke Whitelock; and for hating on Tana
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On J Barrett, for mine he's not suited to the midfield - certainly not centre - and I don't expect him to end up there as anything more than cover, at the highest levels. He's a gangly streak of weasel piss for a start which is a physique you don't see in the midfield for a reason. He's got some class about him at fullback and that appears to be what he should concentrate on as much as is within his own control (does that make sense??), given Bender won't be around in 18 months' time.
Maybe it's B Barretts' career confusing me, but has J Barrett any background at 10? I can't recall. Kind of in the Leon MacDonald mould, if you can play fullback and 12 (and Jordie did make a good fist of 12 in his debut NPC season for Canterbury), I tend to think you should be able to play 10.
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@siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
Noticed a bit of niggle emanating from Barrett the youngest. An errant shoulder and such
Quite like it ( till he gives away a penalty in black) 🙂
wait, i thought the narrative was a bit of niggle was a dead giveaway for a bad attitude meaning that said player will never amount to anything at the higher level?
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@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
@siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
Noticed a bit of niggle emanating from Barrett the youngest. An errant shoulder and such
Quite like it ( till he gives away a penalty in black) 🙂
wait, i thought the narrative was a bit of niggle was a dead giveaway for a bad attitude meaning that said player will never amount to anything at the higher level?
Only when it's Akira.
Not when it's Coles, Retallick, Cane etc
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@kiwimurph said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
@siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
Noticed a bit of niggle emanating from Barrett the youngest. An errant shoulder and such
Quite like it ( till he gives away a penalty in black) 🙂
wait, i thought the narrative was a bit of niggle was a dead giveaway for a bad attitude meaning that said player will never amount to anything at the higher level?
Only when it's Akira.
Not when it's Coles, Retallick, Cane etc
RACISM!!!
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@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
@kiwimurph said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
@siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
Noticed a bit of niggle emanating from Barrett the youngest. An errant shoulder and such
Quite like it ( till he gives away a penalty in black) 🙂
wait, i thought the narrative was a bit of niggle was a dead giveaway for a bad attitude meaning that said player will never amount to anything at the higher level?
Only when it's Akira.
Not when it's Coles, Retallick, Cane etc
RACISM!!!
If only Tana was AB coach aye
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@shark said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
Maybe it's B Barretts' career confusing me, but has J Barrett any background at 10? I can't recall. Kind of in the Leon MacDonald mould, if you can play fullback and 12 (and Jordie did make a good fist of 12 in his debut NPC season for Canterbury), I tend to think you should be able to play 10.
I think there's a bit of a spectrum with overlapping skills, but the requirements in each of those positions are different - so different strengths are more important and different weaknesses can be exploited for each of those positions.
In my opinion, first five is a highly specialized position - sure you can chuck Jordie in there and he'll probably be better than SBW or Nonu, for example, as a first five (neither of whom I'd ever want at first five or fullback) - but, he's unlikely to be as good as Beauden, Mo'unga or DMac. I just can't see how a guy with levers that long can have the necessary quickness and deftness to be as good as the smaller guys. I will frankly be amazed if he has any sort of serious career at 10.
I don't really see why the fans would be arguing to shift him to midfield either except as idle speculation.
Even Leon who was shorter and had quite a bit of youthful history as a first five was only a stopgap option for the ABs.
As time went on in his career, I thought Danny-Boy became less effective as a second five as the opponents he was required to mark grew bigger.
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@act-crusader said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
@kiwimurph said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
@mariner4life said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
@siam said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
Noticed a bit of niggle emanating from Barrett the youngest. An errant shoulder and such
Quite like it ( till he gives away a penalty in black) 🙂
wait, i thought the narrative was a bit of niggle was a dead giveaway for a bad attitude meaning that said player will never amount to anything at the higher level?
Only when it's Akira.
Not when it's Coles, Retallick, Cane etc
RACISM!!!
If only Tana was AB coach aye
well, Rancid might get his wish, with JB shoe horned in to 12.
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@chris-b said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
@shark said in Crusaders v Hurricanes - SF:
Maybe it's B Barretts' career confusing me, but has J Barrett any background at 10? I can't recall. Kind of in the Leon MacDonald mould, if you can play fullback and 12 (and Jordie did make a good fist of 12 in his debut NPC season for Canterbury), I tend to think you should be able to play 10.
I think there's a bit of a spectrum with overlapping skills, but the requirements in each of those positions are different - so different strengths are more important and different weaknesses can be exploited for each of those positions.
In my opinion, first five is a highly specialized position - sure you can chuck Jordie in there and he'll probably be better than SBW or Nonu, for example, as a first five (neither of whom I'd ever want at first five or fullback) - but, he's unlikely to be as good as Beauden, Mo'unga or DMac. I just can't see how a guy with levers that long can have the necessary quickness and deftness to be as good as the smaller guys. I will frankly be amazed if he has any sort of serious career at 10.
I don't really see why the fans would be arguing to shift him to midfield either except as idle speculation.
Even Leon who was shorter and had quite a bit of youthful history as a first five was only a stopgap option for the ABs.
As time went on in his career, I thought Danny-Boy became less effective as a second five as the opponents he was required to mark grew bigger.
Who? Matt Giteau?
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Leon MacDonald was a good #10 in my opinion, except he had a fullback's kick -- too slow, and hence prone to charge downs, and lacking a bit in variety. At the time it made sense to play him though.
