NH International Rugby
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@machpants said in NH International Rugby:
@antipodean said in NH International Rugby:
@machpants England is a big place, surely they have coaches?
Their best coaches don't want to take the role, Baxter (exeter) has already said nooooooo thanks a few times. Poisoned chalice
Partially this poisoned chalice view methinks but Baxter in particular has other, more sound reasons. He is first and foremost an Exeter man. He's been part of the club since he was a kid. His dad was a former captain and chairman of selectors, committee man etc. Both he and his brother are former captains. Exeter runs deep in this man. He could quite easily have played at a higher level but chose to stay with his club.
He is still in contract, which means a lot to him and he is coach of the double champions with a good chance of more silverware to come.
He is also a very shrewd man and probably realises that the strengths and qualities that he has brought to Exeter are not necessarily transferrable to England.
Outside of Baxter I am not sure there are many English coaches putting their hands up?
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@antipodean Exeter's Rob Baxter has said no. I can't see them going with Dean Richards, too much baggage. Steve Borthwick at Leicester was Eddie Jones' forwards coach until 2019 but his team have done poorly this year. Alex Sanderson has had an impressive first year in charge of Sale but the England job would be a big jump.
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@bones said in NH International Rugby:
Interesting to compare number of wins and losses, but the points total is junk data - most of the 6 Nations has been 2 points for a win, then they switched to the bonus point system about 5(?) Years ago, so now it's 4 or 5 points for a win. You can't just add the points up across both systems.
Some other stats for the same time period:
Grand Slam Champions
4 Wales
3 France
2 Ireland
2 EnglandChampions
7 England
6 Wales
5 France
4 IrelandWooden Spoon
16 Italy
4 Scotland
1 France
1 Wales -
Another interesting and telling stat to add to that is the number of second places achieved by each team.
England 9
Ireland 6
France 5
Wales 1
Scotland 0
Italy 0I hadn't quite realised what a rollercoaster ride it is to be a Wales fan. Feast or famine hardly comes in to it.
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
Another interesting and telling stat to add to that is the number of second places achieved by each team.
England 9
Ireland 6
France 5
Wales 1
Scotland 0
Italy 0I hadn't quite realised what a rollercoaster ride it is to be a Wales fan. Feast or famine hardly comes in to it.
Hard yards
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Dear God, please not Gatland
Not sure what to make of your post.
Are you rating Gats and therefore don't want England to be good? Or thinking he'll be a fuck up as you're actually a closet England fan?
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@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Dear God, please not Gatland
Not sure what to make of your post.
Are you rating Gats and therefore don't want England to be good? Or thinking he'll be a fuck up as you're actually a closet England fan?
Gats is smart enough to stop England consistently underachieving and turn them into a very good team.
But my biggest concern is that, as a Welshman, I have fond memories of the Gatland years, and I'd hate for that to be tarnished. I know WG is a Kiwi and a professional coach, but it still just feels wrong. He's an honorary Welshman, there aren't many things you could do to be stripped of that title, but this is one.
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Dear God, please not Gatland
Not sure what to make of your post.
Are you rating Gats and therefore don't want England to be good? Or thinking he'll be a fuck up as you're actually a closet England fan?
Gats is smart enough to stop England consistently underachieving and turn them into a very good team.
But my biggest concern is that, as a Welshman, I have fond memories of the Gatland years, and I'd hate for that to be tarnished. I know WG is a Kiwi and a professional coach, but it still just feels wrong. He's an honorary Welshman, there aren't many things you could do to be stripped of that title, but this is one.
I can understand that and from the other side, Gatland has had a hand in a good few disappointment for England and I'm not sure he would be welcomed with open arms accordingly.
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@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Dear God, please not Gatland
Not sure what to make of your post.
Are you rating Gats and therefore don't want England to be good? Or thinking he'll be a fuck up as you're actually a closet England fan?
Gats is smart enough to stop England consistently underachieving and turn them into a very good team.
But my biggest concern is that, as a Welshman, I have fond memories of the Gatland years, and I'd hate for that to be tarnished. I know WG is a Kiwi and a professional coach, but it still just feels wrong. He's an honorary Welshman, there aren't many things you could do to be stripped of that title, but this is one.
All the coaches are guns for hire and money talks. Remember before he was the Wales boss that Gatland was Head Coach of Ireland.
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@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Dear God, please not Gatland
Not sure what to make of your post.
Are you rating Gats and therefore don't want England to be good? Or thinking he'll be a fuck up as you're actually a closet England fan?
Gats is smart enough to stop England consistently underachieving and turn them into a very good team.
But my biggest concern is that, as a Welshman, I have fond memories of the Gatland years, and I'd hate for that to be tarnished. I know WG is a Kiwi and a professional coach, but it still just feels wrong. He's an honorary Welshman, there aren't many things you could do to be stripped of that title, but this is one.
All the coaches are guns for hire and money talks. Remember before he was the Wales boss that Gatland was Head Coach of Ireland.
True but he A) got dumped by Ireland rather than leave after a decade of success, so not quite the reciprocal affection and
Didn't inflict quite so much pain on the other 6N countries whilst he was with Ireland. I really think England would be a step too far, gun for hire or no. -
@catogrande Joe Schmidt is no fan.
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
@booboo said in NH International Rugby:
@gibbonrib said in NH International Rugby:
Dear God, please not Gatland
Not sure what to make of your post.
Are you rating Gats and therefore don't want England to be good? Or thinking he'll be a fuck up as you're actually a closet England fan?
Gats is smart enough to stop England consistently underachieving and turn them into a very good team.
But my biggest concern is that, as a Welshman, I have fond memories of the Gatland years, and I'd hate for that to be tarnished. I know WG is a Kiwi and a professional coach, but it still just feels wrong. He's an honorary Welshman, there aren't many things you could do to be stripped of that title, but this is one.
All the coaches are guns for hire and money talks. Remember before he was the Wales boss that Gatland was Head Coach of Ireland.
True but he A) got dumped by Ireland rather than leave after a decade of success, so not quite the reciprocal affection and
Didn't inflict quite so much pain on the other 6N countries whilst he was with Ireland. I really think England would be a step too far, gun for hire or no.I seem to remember some bloke called Jones being coach of Australia and Japan and assistant coach to South Africa before his current gig. I seem to remember some bloke called Mitchell coaching the All Blacks and the US before his current gig too.
If Gatland is a successful coach whose side wins games and trophies, he will quickly become popular with England fans.
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@sparky I take your point but feel that Gatland is different. He invested God knows how many years with Wales and was very successful in that he won a lot of silverware, quite often at the expense of England. He has a strong attachment to Wales and left on very good terms. Eddie not so much save for his stint in Japan. Mitchell? Has he left anywhere on good terms? Has he won anything at international level?
I just don’t se him going to England and whilst I can see the RFU going for him, not so much the England fan base. I could be wrong and would be prepared to eat humble pie if proved wrong but I won’t be getting my knife and fork out just yet.
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
I could be wrong and would be prepared to eat humble pie
Hats are more traditional around here and some good recipes will be offered.
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@catogrande said in NH International Rugby:
@sparky I take your point but feel that Gatland is different. He invested God knows how many years with Wales and was very successful in that he won a lot of silverware, quite often at the expense of England. He has a strong attachment to Wales and left on very good terms. Eddie not so much save for his stint in Japan. Mitchell? Has he left anywhere on good terms? Has he won anything at international level?
I just don’t se him going to England and whilst I can see the RFU going for him, not so much the England fan base. I could be wrong and would be prepared to eat humble pie if proved wrong but I won’t be getting my knife and fork out just yet.
I don't really see the motivation for Gats to coach England, TBH. It's not like he needs the cash and it's not like the prestige would attract him given he's beaten them plenty and is in any event coach of the BIL - probably the pinnacle for any "home nation" player or coach in terms of "prestige"
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@junior Eddie Jones is on £750,000 a year plus bonuses. It looks like he was on £1 million a year at one stage.
Eddie Jones agrees new England contract until 2023 World Cup
Eddie Jones will stay on as England’s head coach until the Rugby World Cup in France in three years’ time
A couple of years of that would set Gats up for a very nice retirement indeed. Plus given England's player strength, they must be realistic world Cup contenders. He seemed to enjoy working with Farrell, Watson, Itoje and Daly during the 2017 Liosn tour too.
