All Blacks v France Test 3
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Sumo seems to be certain on the team:
6 Frizell 7 Ardie 8 Whitelock 13 Goodhue
19 Hemopo 20 Todd 22 Mounga 23 Jordie
All Blacks to make major changes for third France Test
The All Blacks will ring the changes for final French test, double down on Highlanders, and hand starting test debuts to Shannon Frizell and Jack Goodhue, along with potential test debuts for a couple of their Super Rugby team mates.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
On Akira, maybe they're using Read as the blueprint for him - you all might remember, Cantabs certainly will, that Read was actually held back from elevation to the ABs initially.
Read started his super career playing on the blindside, and it wasn’t until his second season that he really settled as our no8 and after a strong season he made the ABs that same year for the EOYT. Rodders was still around for 2008 as the incumbent.
I was a huge Rodders fan so it didn’t make much difference to me.
Nepia is right, though.
Henry said at the time (when Read wasn't picked) that they expected him to be a very important player for the ABs in the future and they were going to take their time in letting him develop before rushing him in.
The funny thing with that (and hindsight is bliss), Read played a lot of test footy in 2009 as Rodders form took a considerable dip and he lost that edge.
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Sumo seems to be certain on the team:
6 Frizell 7 Ardie 8 Whitelock 13 Goodhue
19 Hemopo 20 Todd 22 Mounga 23 Jordie
All Blacks to make major changes for third France Test
The All Blacks will ring the changes for final French test, double down on Highlanders, and hand starting test debuts to Shannon Frizell and Jack Goodhue, along with potential test debuts for a couple of their Super Rugby team mates.
I wonder how he "knows" this. Since when do the AB selectors leak their line-up before Thursday? Or would it be so obvious, just from watching them train?
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@stargazer said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Sumo seems to be certain on the team:
6 Frizell 7 Ardie 8 Whitelock 13 Goodhue
19 Hemopo 20 Todd 22 Mounga 23 Jordie
All Blacks to make major changes for third France Test
The All Blacks will ring the changes for final French test, double down on Highlanders, and hand starting test debuts to Shannon Frizell and Jack Goodhue, along with potential test debuts for a couple of their Super Rugby team mates.
I wonder how he "knows" this. Since when do the AB selectors leak their line-up before Thursday? Or would it be so obvious, just from watching them train?
I think those that hang around the camp work it out from various observations like training lineups, coaches reactions/ expressions, player's reactions/expressions etc. They will have observed how things work enough times to have their analysis pretty accurate.
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@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
I'm just bloody stunned by how thin we are two full seasons after a RWC. Losing half a dozen all timey greats was never goin to be easy to recover from but there was depth at the time at 10, in midfield and at loose head prop but now we're thin as fuck and even worse when it comes to combinations involving those positions plus in the loose forwards. We've had something like 30 tests since the last RWC yet where are the proven loose forwards after Reado (also aging) and a bit of depth at 7? Kaino was never gonna make another RWC cycle yet we don't have a clear successor at 6. Squire is close but didn't cover himself in glory last week. No quality 8 back up either. We're lucky at hooker that Taylor has really stepped up in Coles' absence of that'd be another problem position. Back up props are an issue also with Faumuina and Crockett gone. Massive stroke of luck that Karl T has come outta nowhere or we'd be in all sorts. And Ofa ain't a long term solution. At lock we have a stunning top trio when fit and two world class half-backs. No dramas in the outside backs aside from settling on a top combination. Midfield is messy. We've had plenty of unavailability for various reasons but at times SBW and Crotty have looked good together and also Crotty and ALB in 2016. But I don't think SBW is a certainty to make it to the RWC and that leaves us really scratching unless we bring another grunty AND rounded midfielder in (this isn't Laumape) and give him a dozen games so we have someone to compliment Crotty and ALB. At 10 we need now to give Mo'unga minutes and as many as possible. D Mac isnt the back up option there, but could be a third option as a utility come RWC time with another Super Rugby season under his belt.
Paragraphs please. I simply cannot be bothered reading text like that on my phone.
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@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
I'm just thinking about the guys NZ rugby has let go since 2015 in positions where we are now struggling. Cruden, Sopoaga and Luatua stand out. Faumuina also. That little lot would all (bar maybe Sopoaga) be in the frame right now and easing the pain somewhat.
They didn’t let them go. They chose not to bankrupt NZ rugby by matching French salaries. Would have happily kept them if they could.
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@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
We're lucky at hooker that Taylor has really stepped up in Coles' absence of that'd be another problem position.
I don't get this. Bemoan the fact the coaches haven't found players/backups in certain positions, then when there's a spot they have, it's just luck?
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@bones Taylor has stepped up massively in Coles' absence. He was the designated back up yes but I'm quite sure everyone thought there was a massive gulf in class between the two and Coles' absence would hurt a lot more than it has. The selectors get credit for blooding him. And we're lucky he's stepped up.
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@chester-draws said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
I'm just bloody stunned by how thin we are two full seasons after a RWC. Losing half a dozen all timey greats was never goin to be easy to recover from but there was depth at the time at 10, in midfield and at loose head prop but now we're thin as fuck and even worse when it comes to combinations involving those positions plus in the loose forwards. We've had something like 30 tests since the last RWC yet where are the proven loose forwards after Reado (also aging) and a bit of depth at 7? Kaino was never gonna make another RWC cycle yet we don't have a clear successor at 6. Squire is close but didn't cover himself in glory last week. No quality 8 back up either. We're lucky at hooker that Taylor has really stepped up in Coles' absence of that'd be another problem position. Back up props are an issue also with Faumuina and Crockett gone. Massive stroke of luck that Karl T has come outta nowhere or we'd be in all sorts. And Ofa ain't a long term solution. At lock we have a stunning top trio when fit and two world class half-backs. No dramas in the outside backs aside from settling on a top combination. Midfield is messy. We've had plenty of unavailability for various reasons but at times SBW and Crotty have looked good together and also Crotty and ALB in 2016. But I don't think SBW is a certainty to make it to the RWC and that leaves us really scratching unless we bring another grunty AND rounded midfielder in (this isn't Laumape) and give him a dozen games so we have someone to compliment Crotty and ALB. At 10 we need now to give Mo'unga minutes and as many as possible. D Mac isnt the back up option there, but could be a third option as a utility come RWC time with another Super Rugby season under his belt.
Paragraphs please. I simply cannot be bothered reading text like that on my phone.
Umm nah.
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@pukunui said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
I'm just bloody stunned by how thin we are two full seasons after a RWC. Losing half a dozen all timey greats was never goin to be easy to recover from but there was depth at the time at 10, in midfield and at loose head prop but now we're thin as fuck and even worse when it comes to combinations involving those positions plus in the loose forwards. We've had something like 30 tests since the last RWC yet where are the proven loose forwards after Reado (also aging) and a bit of depth at 7? Kaino was never gonna make another RWC cycle yet we don't have a clear successor at 6. Squire is close but didn't cover himself in glory last week. No quality 8 back up either. We're lucky at hooker that Taylor has really stepped up in Coles' absence of that'd be another problem position. Back up props are an issue also with Faumuina and Crockett gone. Massive stroke of luck that Karl T has come outta nowhere or we'd be in all sorts. And Ofa ain't a long term solution. At lock we have a stunning top trio when fit and two world class half-backs. No dramas in the outside backs aside from settling on a top combination. Midfield is messy. We've had plenty of unavailability for various reasons but at times SBW and Crotty have looked good together and also Crotty and ALB in 2016. But I don't think SBW is a certainty to make it to the RWC and that leaves us really scratching unless we bring another grunty AND rounded midfielder in (this isn't Laumape) and give him a dozen games so we have someone to compliment Crotty and ALB. At 10 we need now to give Mo'unga minutes and as many as possible. D Mac isnt the back up option there, but could be a third option as a utility come RWC time with another Super Rugby season under his belt.
I think there are two major causes of things not being as settled as we would like at this stage in the rwc cycle.
First is the Lions tour. A few guys obviously stuck around for that before leaving to cash in up north where they possibly would have left a year or two earlier if the Lions tour wasn't happening. Eg. Kaino, Charlie F, Crockett, Cruden, TKB, Sopoaga, Fekitoa and Luatua (to a lesser extent) all held out until after the Lions to bugger off or retire. That has meant the post 2015 rebuild has been staggered so you only get 2 years to rebuild rather than the usual 4.The other major factor is the shear amount of long term injuries guys have been getting. Established guys like Coles, Read, Dagg, Ben Smith, Crotty and SBW have been out regularly or for extended periods meaning combinations haven't been able to form with guys coming in. Then on top of that you have newer guys like Squire, Laulala, Hames, Moli, Aumua, Jordie, nms and Bird being long term injured and missing out on important development time and chances to nail down a spot.
Of course you then also have to add guys like Ardie, Elliot Dixon, Harris and Tuipulotu not exactly stepping up to where we would want them to.
Fair points, and I had considered both the Lions tour carrot and injuries to the emerging guys. I think the latter is most poignant as the former was predictable.
But long term injuries to established guys are opportunities to blood replacements. Taylor has stepped up for Coles. The outside backs are fine in terms of depth but lack combination. But midfield is messy as is 8.
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This post is deleted!
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In other news, English journalist Mark Reason has been injured after falling off his hobby-horse. The burden of writing not one, not two, not even three but FOUR consecutive articles about the ABs and red cards has taken its toll. Messages of good will can be sent ℅ S. Jones, Esq, Ivory Tower, Wales-on-England.
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@Chester-Draws Don't be a twat. I've deleted those posts.
@shark I have to agree with @booboo with the injury crisis is making us look worse than we actually are. If Retallick is playing then suddenly a lot of this goes away as he makes up for a hell of a lot in the forwards.
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@billy-tell that's priceless. Is he blaming the AB's for the fall 😀
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@stargazer said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
I wonder how he "knows" this. Since when do the AB selectors leak their line-up before Thursday? Or would it be so obvious, just from watching them train?
In addition to what @Crucial says, the media knows the team for these tests well before the official announcement as they will have written their articles for the Thu newspapers with the team list. There will be an embargo on public release.
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@shark said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Plus on Taylor, there have been a few 'third' hookers used since 2016. Coles has missed plenty of tests. And yet the next best is Harris? Yikes.
Always knew Taylor was a keeper.
Had seen him galloping in the loose for NZ U20s and Canterbury as a youngster. On almost test debut? He nails a clutch throw in last minutes for a lineout trick move for McCaw try in South Africa. Balls of steel.
All that needed to happen was for his frame to fill out and his tight play match his loose play.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bovidae If there's an embargo, then that article from Sumo comes very close to breaking it.
I would say that the media manager for the ABs wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t drop a couple of names to keep the public interested and the media on side.
