Formula 1
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Congratulations to Brandon Hartley on realising a dream and becoming a full time F1 driver. First kiwi since the glory years?
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This is really cool! He must be absolutely frothing. Hope they can sort out the car so he can have a serious crack next year.
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Torro Rosso also gives him the clearest path to a front running drive too, given the very close relationship between the two red bull teams (all four drivers are contracted by red bull).
That said I don't think he'll be displacing Ricciardo or Verstappen anytime soon, but he's given himself the best possible opportunity.
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Mate of a mate who I went to the rugby with is an aerodynamic engineer at Toro Rosso. So I had a long interesting chat to him. I'm not a huge F1 fan, I actually prefer the qualifying to the race, but I'll generally watch it if I'm home and doing nothing. Anyway, some points of note:
Hartley is toast. Hes just plain not quick enough, and has shown himself to continually be 0.5s a lap slower than Gasly, who is not rated to really be in the upper pantheon of drivers
I said Hartleys age also counted against him, if he's 0.5s slower and 19, thats one thing, but at 29 - maybe past it - he said no, thats not really the case. The data shows him as a person to just not be quick enough - but even the slowest F1 driver can pretty much so dominate any other racing series
He said Hartley would likely be faster than Gasly in Brazil, as he said the track is quite heavy on some of type or corners where Hartley is faster - proved to be correct.
Unsurprisingly he said in about 3 years it will likely be Max Verstappen and then everybody else. Clear cut the fastest driver, but he also said there is some 17 year old whose just won F3 or something who is being scouted pretty heavily.
The technology on the cars is amazing. They monitor speeds on every corner, on every track at rate of something like 100 times a second. Epic bag data nerd fantasy stuff.
Because I live within a mile of McLaren, I had briefly looked at jobs there, but reality is that my 'city' experience doesn't really set me up for any thing decent, but after a brief chat with this bloke it's massively reinvigorated my interest.
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@majorrage said in Formula 1:
Mate of a mate who I went to the rugby with is an aerodynamic engineer at Toro Rosso. So I had a long interesting chat to him. I'm not a huge F1 fan, I actually prefer the qualifying to the race, but I'll generally watch it if I'm home and doing nothing. Anyway, some points of note:
Hartley is toast. Hes just plain not quick enough, and has shown himself to continually be 0.5s a lap slower than Gasly, who is not rated to really be in the upper pantheon of drivers
I said Hartleys age also counted against him, if he's 0.5s slower and 19, thats one thing, but at 29 - maybe past it - he said no, thats not really the case. The data shows him as a person to just not be quick enough - but even the slowest F1 driver can pretty much so dominate any other racing series
He said Hartley would likely be faster than Gasly in Brazil, as he said the track is quite heavy on some of type or corners where Hartley is faster - proved to be correct.
Unsurprisingly he said in about 3 years it will likely be Max Verstappen and then everybody else. Clear cut the fastest driver, but he also said there is some 17 year old whose just won F3 or something who is being scouted pretty heavily.
The technology on the cars is amazing. They monitor speeds on every corner, on every track at rate of something like 100 times a second. Epic bag data nerd fantasy stuff.
Because I live within a mile of McLaren, I had briefly looked at jobs there, but reality is that my 'city' experience doesn't really set me up for any thing decent, but after a brief chat with this bloke it's massively reinvigorated my interest.
It must be really frustrating to drive for TR though. Constantly adjusting due to being the test bed for RB. I get that they have comparative data as far as their drivers go but who knows how well they would go in a decent car?
I guessed Hartley wouldn't last after costing the team so much with early crashes. Not only the fix costs but the lost opportunity for data. -
@majorrage said in Formula 1:
Mate of a mate who I went to the rugby with is an aerodynamic engineer at Toro Rosso. So I had a long interesting chat to him. I'm not a huge F1 fan, I actually prefer the qualifying to the race, but I'll generally watch it if I'm home and doing nothing. Anyway, some points of note:
Hartley is toast. Hes just plain not quick enough, and has shown himself to continually be 0.5s a lap slower than Gasly, who is not rated to really be in the upper pantheon of drivers
I said Hartleys age also counted against him, if he's 0.5s slower and 19, thats one thing, but at 29 - maybe past it - he said no, thats not really the case. The data shows him as a person to just not be quick enough - but even the slowest F1 driver can pretty much so dominate any other racing series
He said Hartley would likely be faster than Gasly in Brazil, as he said the track is quite heavy on some of type or corners where Hartley is faster - proved to be correct.
Unsurprisingly he said in about 3 years it will likely be Max Verstappen and then everybody else. Clear cut the fastest driver, but he also said there is some 17 year old whose just won F3 or something who is being scouted pretty heavily.
The technology on the cars is amazing. They monitor speeds on every corner, on every track at rate of something like 100 times a second. Epic bag data nerd fantasy stuff.
Because I live within a mile of McLaren, I had briefly looked at jobs there, but reality is that my 'city' experience doesn't really set me up for any thing decent, but after a brief chat with this bloke it's massively reinvigorated my interest.
It must be really frustrating to drive for TR though. Constantly adjusting due to being the test bed for RB. I get that they have comparative data as far as their drivers go but who knows how well they would go in a decent car?
I guessed Hartley wouldn't last after costing the team so much with early crashes. Not only the fix costs but the lost opportunity for data.He also said there was next to fuck all sharing of information / data with Red Bull as the FIA rules forbid it. He was an aerodynamics engineer and said they were 100% completely separate from Red Bull
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@majorrage said in Formula 1:
@majorrage said in Formula 1:
Mate of a mate who I went to the rugby with is an aerodynamic engineer at Toro Rosso. So I had a long interesting chat to him. I'm not a huge F1 fan, I actually prefer the qualifying to the race, but I'll generally watch it if I'm home and doing nothing. Anyway, some points of note:
Hartley is toast. Hes just plain not quick enough, and has shown himself to continually be 0.5s a lap slower than Gasly, who is not rated to really be in the upper pantheon of drivers
I said Hartleys age also counted against him, if he's 0.5s slower and 19, thats one thing, but at 29 - maybe past it - he said no, thats not really the case. The data shows him as a person to just not be quick enough - but even the slowest F1 driver can pretty much so dominate any other racing series
He said Hartley would likely be faster than Gasly in Brazil, as he said the track is quite heavy on some of type or corners where Hartley is faster - proved to be correct.
Unsurprisingly he said in about 3 years it will likely be Max Verstappen and then everybody else. Clear cut the fastest driver, but he also said there is some 17 year old whose just won F3 or something who is being scouted pretty heavily.
The technology on the cars is amazing. They monitor speeds on every corner, on every track at rate of something like 100 times a second. Epic bag data nerd fantasy stuff.
Because I live within a mile of McLaren, I had briefly looked at jobs there, but reality is that my 'city' experience doesn't really set me up for any thing decent, but after a brief chat with this bloke it's massively reinvigorated my interest.
It must be really frustrating to drive for TR though. Constantly adjusting due to being the test bed for RB. I get that they have comparative data as far as their drivers go but who knows how well they would go in a decent car?
I guessed Hartley wouldn't last after costing the team so much with early crashes. Not only the fix costs but the lost opportunity for data.He also said there was next to fuck all sharing of information / data with Red Bull as the FIA rules forbid it. He was an aerodynamics engineer and said they were 100% completely separate from Red Bull
I guess operationally they are. I know fuck all about F1 (I find it boring but take passing interest) but I did hear the comms the other day talk about how next year RB will likely be starting from a stronger base due to TR effectively testing the new engines for them. As I said, I don't know how it works but I just always assumed that as TR are non competitive they are there to try things that RB can't during a season.
EDIT: Just found this on the F1 site. It seems to be talking about what I heard.
Although they’re the Red Bull junior team on paper, Toro Rosso are very much their own entity. But with Honda power set to be used by both Red Bull and Toro Rosso in 2019, the Italian team are ramping up to increase their collaboration with the senior outfit for next year.
Toro Rosso announced in September of last year that they would move to Honda power for 2018, with Red Bull opting to take the same route for 2019 earlier this year. And while the two teams have used the same power units before – both running rebadged Renault items in 2017, for example – 2019 will see the Red Bull and Toro Rosso cars sharing an entire rear end, including a complete gearbox, as well as some front suspension parts.
“We will have a very close cooperation with Red Bull Technology next year because we will have the same rear part,” said Toro Rosso Team Principal Franz Tost, “which means the power unit, gearbox and the suspension – everything within the regulations [that we’re allowed to use].
“The front suspension as well," he added, "the inner parts, not the outer parts. But that’s a lot, because the complete rear part means also the hydraulics, the electronics, all this kind of stuff.”Toro Rosso are moving more towards the Ferrari/Haas model with Red Bull
The move will see Red Bull and Toro Rosso move closer to the Ferrari/Haas technical partnership model, whereby Haas benefit from using all the Ferrari parts that the Scuderia are legally allowed to make available for other teams, including power units, transmissions, suspension components, hydraulics and electronics.
It’s a model that’s clearly helped Haas, with the American team currently angling to overtake Renault’s fourth place in the constructors’ championship in only their third season in F1.
Toro Rosso, meanwhile, have never finished higher than sixth in the constructors’ race since their debut season in 2006. Could closer ties to Red Bull see that change? -
Arise dead thread, probably didn't need is own so I'll say fucking impressive achievement by Lewis Hamilton:
91 wins (equal to Schumacher, he's got 6 more races to do it this year).
6 champs (7 equalling Schumacher coming up soon).
Far the most polls and podiums of any driver.
Only driver to have won in every year he's competed.
And he's done it without running a few competitors off the track, as far as I know. Still pissed about when Schumacher nobbled Damian!Schumacher's son presented him with one of his dad's helmets
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/oct/11/lewis-hamilton-equals-michael-schumachers-91-race-wins-at-eifel-f1-gp#img-2 -
@Machpants And he’s done it without constant, highly dubious team orders. Don’t particularly like the guy but he’s the GOAT.
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@Catogrande said in Formula 1:
@Machpants And he’s done it without constant, highly dubious team orders. Don’t particularly like the guy but he’s the GOAT.
Yeah me too, no huge fan, but gotta respect his ability and achievements
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There's no doubt he's a tremendous talent but in my mind he can't be considered the GOAT. To do that requires drives that are seared into the memory as career defining drives. Like Senna at Donnington in 93, Schumacher's 96 drive in the Spanish grand prix.
Hamilton has benefited from a clearly dominant car, stability in regulations and lack of competitive co-drivers. The modern season also has mores races in the calendar.
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@antipodean said in Formula 1:
There's no doubt he's a tremendous talent but in my mind he can't be considered the GOAT. To do that requires drives that are seared into the memory as career defining drives. Like Senna at Donnington in 93, Schumacher's 96 drive in the Spanish grand prix.
Hamilton has benefited from a clearly dominant car, stability in regulations and lack of competitive co-drivers. The modern season also has mores races in the calendar.
Yeah, agree. I mean he's clearly one of the best ever drivers, and i'd argue his Silverstone in the wet is his career defining drive, but it just feels like he's had such a leg up with his car. I mean, Nico Rosberg won a world championship in it = solid, excellent driver, but not a world champion.
If you think what Schumacher did for Ferrari and then what Prost / Senna did for McLaren, it takes them all to the next level. Then you compare what happened to Vettel after he left Red Bull, it just feels like Hamilton is more Vettel than one of the others.
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When Hamilton moved to Mercedes, he was slated for it. It was a new a unproved team, his work with the team is part of the reason they are so dominant. He also has had Champion team mates, I think three times, and beaten them convincingly every time he was with them in the same car. He's pretty fucking rocking. I think it is hard to get those seared in performances with modern cars being so technical, but he is a winning machine. And winning is what counts in pro sport. I think because he is a gob shite, people don't give him his due as a driver. And at least he isn't as dull as paint drying Nigel!
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In terms of multiple world titles it is always the better car that is the factor. Even going back as far as Fangio, he swapped seats halfway though one season to get into a better car.
Currently Mercedes has the better car undoubtedly (though Red Bull are getting closer), but Hamilton has out qualified, out raced and outwitted his team mates, has suffered more than his fair share of team errors (this year) and reliability issues and is still far and away the dominant driver of his generation. He has done this without resorting to running his opponents off the track or benefitting from team orders. His ability to pull out THE lap in qualifying has been amazing, his ability in the wet is again up there with the best as is his sheer speed and racing ability. Moreover he won a world championship in 2008 in not the best car (Ferrari won the constructors title) and he is (I think), the only driver to have one in every season that he has competed).
Is he the best driver ever? Probably not, but his record makes him the GOAT for me.
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@Machpants said in Formula 1:
When Hamilton moved to Mercedes, he was slated for it. It was a new a unproved team, his work with the team is part of the reason they are so dominant. He also has had Champion team mates, I think three times, and beaten them convincingly every time he was with them in the same car. He's pretty fucking rocking. I think it is hard to get those seared in performances with modern cars being so technical, but he is a winning machine. And winning is what counts in pro sport. I think because he is a gob shite, people don't give him his due as a driver. And at least he isn't as dull as paint drying Nigel!
This is the shit that pisses me off about Hamilton fan boys - so much of the above is simply not true.
He has two WC partners and he dominated neither. Fernando Alonso, in 2007, they finished the season equal on points, with Fernando finishing above him on 10 of 18 races. At the end of the season, Alonso quit McLaren because they team clearly favoured Lewis (probably rightly so, given he was a Brit and had been with hem for years).
2008 - credit where it's due, as all the hard work paid off. Beat Kovalienen convincingly (who wasn't a world champion)
2010 / 2011 he had Button, who had pretty much so been a journeyman his entire racing career apart from the one with Brawn in a truly dominant car. He finished above him 2010, Button above him in 2011 - where is this convincingly claim of yours again?
Then he joins Mercedes, which has a pretty decent start, not amazing but decent. And the turbo rule changes come in and boom and he's on the next level. It would be churlish to suggest he didn't play a part in this - of course he did. Him & Rosberg dominated the next few years, with Hamilton certainly the superior driver, but the car playing a huge role in it. Hell, Rosberg even won a WC then promptly retired.
Since then, he's had Bottas as a clear number 2.
He's undoubtedly one of the greatest, but for me, he's not the greatest. You are spot on though about will to win, he has that in spades.
