How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?
-
Dare I throw a Whitelock into the mix?!
-
@Paekakboyz He's been going well enough. It's unlikely, but not completely beyond the realms of possibility. Probably about the same place as Taufua.
-
@Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
You have to look at the role Kaino plays in the set up. He is tasked to straight line carry in close and to drive attacks backward with dominant tackles.
Who is the closest we have to that?
Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact.its funny you mentioned Barrett, I was thinking of him
-
@Paekakboyz said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Dare I throw a Whitelock into the mix?!
It did cross my mind as well.
Just did a quick compare of stats against those of Kaino's this year and no one comes close except Shields who beats him in nearly every area except that he has conceded more turnovers.
Next best solely by stats is probably Messam.
-
@KiwiMurph said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Kaino will undergo surgery this week (knee) and will be out of action for around six weeks.
Where is the "unlike" button?
-
@mariner4life said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
I like Squire off the bench in tests, but not sure a starting role fits his current skill set.
I'm a massive fan of Messam, but not sure his form is of the same quality as a couple of years ago. Not sure Dixon provides the presence.
I think all the main possibilities bring different skill sets, and would probably need a rejig of responsibility in the back row, as none are a like-for-like replacement. Of course, the coach probably feels completely different.
Luatua?
Fifita? -
@westcoastie said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Did Kaino win a Super title in 2003 with the Blues?
Anyways, replacements?
Cane to 6, Todd or Savea to 7?
Squire? Don't think Dixon or Messam are up to it.
Brad Shields? (I thought he was an 8, but started at 6 vs Brumbies - could this be his time?)AB's really like their 6 smashing people in the tight, and also like Read being free to roam so they need that balance.
To be honest, Kaino will get back, and fresh, and then belt Warburton, Faletau, O'Brien, Itoje, anything in red, and then retire. Actually, he might belt a few aussies just for shits & giggles and then retire.
Surely Cane to 6 is never happening. We'll be left with a Pooper lineout.
-
@Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact.
Super Rugby 6's play a LOT looser than test 6's, so the direct comparison for the tests is more likley to be a 6/lock from super rugby, rather than a straight 6. Also the Lions will play a big jumper at 6.
So I'd be pretty happy to see Barrett play 6 for the Crusaders v the Lions as an audition.
Kainos role in tests, as you note, is close hit ups, hit every ruck, lift in lineouts, scrum well. Moving a 7 over there - like Ardie, would literally be bringing in the total opposite.
Worth bearing in mind too, when considering 6, half the Fern regard Ruben Thorne as a joke, while 3 (4?) sets of AB selectors regarded him as utterly vital & pretty much every team he played in right through regarded him a a legend, so maybe the Fern collective should be looking for a 6 they have no idea why they keep getting picked & who has zero X factor - cause thats probably the guy that will in the selectors sights.
-
@gollum said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact.
Super Rugby 6's play a LOT looser than test 6's, so the direct comparison for the tests is more likley to be a 6/lock from super rugby, rather than a straight 6. Also the Lions will play a big jumper at 6.
So I'd be pretty happy to see Barrett play 6 for the Crusaders v the Lions as an audition.
Kainos role in tests, as you note, is close hit ups, hit every ruck, lift in lineouts, scrum well. Moving a 7 over there - like Ardie, would literally be bringing in the total opposite.
Worth bearing in mind too, when considering 6, half the Fern regard Ruben Thorne as a joke, while 3 (4?) sets of AB selectors regarded him as utterly vital & pretty much every team he played in right through regarded him a a legend, so maybe the Fern collective should be looking for a 6 they have no idea why they keep getting picked & who has zero X factor - cause thats probably the guy that will in the selectors sights.
Luke Whitelock has already been mentioned.
-
@kiwiinmelb said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
You have to look at the role Kaino plays in the set up. He is tasked to straight line carry in close and to drive attacks backward with dominant tackles.
Who is the closest we have to that?
Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact.its funny you mentioned Barrett, I was thinking of him
Scott Barrett is not the finished article yet. Last week, he could not prevent Malherbe scoring his try though the latter was not running particularly hard. His missed tackle was a shocker. He will grow better as his older brother did but the Lions series may be a bit too early for him.
-
@cgrant said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Scott Barrett is not the finished article yet. Last week, he could not prevent Malherbe scoring his try though the latter was not running particularly hard. His missed tackle was a shocker. He will grow better as his older brother did but the Lions series may be a bit too early for him.
With Kaino out he wouldn't need to be finished, he'd just have to be better than Squire, Dixon or Ardie playing on the wrong side.
-
What are the options behind Kaino
- Luatua - I think he's too rangy in his approach to play international 6.
- Shields - this is his best season so far, he would have to grab his chance with both hands and then some, I doubt the risk is taken
- Squire - probably best bet IMO
- Dixon - totally underwhelming in black
- Taufua - too short realistically, waxes and wanes in form.
- Whitelock L - not everyone's cup of tea, but has put together a solid body of work in the last 2 seasons after an innocuous start
- Ye olde lock/6 type players: Barrett, Fafita etc
- Ye olde 6/7 - move Cane/Todd there etc - highly unlikely.
- Akira Ioane - man has he not kicked on. A wasted talent so far.
I don't think we need to worry yet TBH, a wee tidy up of a meniscal tear is minimal risk surgery, reckon Kaino will be back well in time myself.
-
@gollum said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Super Rugby 6's play a LOT looser than test 6's, so the direct comparison for the tests is more likley to be a 6/lock from super rugby, rather than a straight 6. Also the Lions will play a big jumper at 6.
Don't be so sure about that. A lot of the media/ex-players' likely Lions test XV has Stander as their 6 and he's shorter than Cane.
I'm not advocating Cane as the AB blindside though, and I don't think Hansen will be selecting a newbie or a player with limited experience in that role if Kaino wasn't available.
-
Re Luatua, what does "too rangy" mean?
He looks good going forward with the Blues and I think OK in the tight stuff also?
Agree if Kaino is not ready for the first test it's between Squire and Luatua, Squire probably first cab off the rank due to AB commitment if not much between them in ability. Scott Barrett in the mix here also.
Hope Kaino is back in full beast mode.
-
@Billy-Tell said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
What are the options behind Kaino
- Luatua - I think he's too rangy in his approach to play international 6.
- Shields - this is his best season so far, he would have to grab his chance with both hands and then some, I doubt the risk is taken
- Squire - probably best bet IMO
- Dixon - totally underwhelming in black
- Taufua - too short realistically, waxes and wanes in form.
- Whitelock L - not everyone's cup of tea, but has put together a solid body of work in the last 2 seasons after an innocuous start
- Ye olde lock/6 type players: Barrett, Fafita etc
- Ye olde 6/7 - move Cane/Todd there etc - highly unlikely.
- Akira Ioane - man has he not kicked on. A wasted talent so far.
I don't think we need to worry yet TBH, a wee tidy up of a meniscal tear is minimal risk surgery, reckon Kaino will be back well in time myself.
How about 6. Read 7. Cane 8. Ardie with Squire on the bench..
-
@Billy-Tell said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
- Shields - this is his best season so far, he would have to grab his chance with both hands and then some,
I like Shields, but I'm worried his hands would drop the chance
-
@Billy-Tell said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Shields - this is his best season so far, he would have to grab his chance with both hands and then some, I doubt the risk is taken
he would probably drop it...
-
@nzzp said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Billy-Tell said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
- Shields - this is his best season so far, he would have to grab his chance with both hands and then some,
I like Shields, but I'm worried his hands would drop the chance
Shields hands give me nightmares. I can see us hot on attack in the dying minutes going for the winning try and Shields shelling a simple pass to finish the game.
-
@Bovidae said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@westcoastie said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Did Kaino win a Super title in 2003 with the Blues?
No, he debuted the following year.
I think Squire is better as an impact sub. He was poor in Chicago when he started. I'm sure Kaino will be fine but Messam is an experienced replacement if required. Like @mariner4life, I don't see Shields as an international quality loose forward.
I don't think you can rate anyone's ability in a test match on Chicago - that game was out of whack with everything, and Squire was a blindside in a team without recognised locks.
