How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?
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@Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact.
Super Rugby 6's play a LOT looser than test 6's, so the direct comparison for the tests is more likley to be a 6/lock from super rugby, rather than a straight 6. Also the Lions will play a big jumper at 6.
So I'd be pretty happy to see Barrett play 6 for the Crusaders v the Lions as an audition.
Kainos role in tests, as you note, is close hit ups, hit every ruck, lift in lineouts, scrum well. Moving a 7 over there - like Ardie, would literally be bringing in the total opposite.
Worth bearing in mind too, when considering 6, half the Fern regard Ruben Thorne as a joke, while 3 (4?) sets of AB selectors regarded him as utterly vital & pretty much every team he played in right through regarded him a a legend, so maybe the Fern collective should be looking for a 6 they have no idea why they keep getting picked & who has zero X factor - cause thats probably the guy that will in the selectors sights.
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@gollum said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact.
Super Rugby 6's play a LOT looser than test 6's, so the direct comparison for the tests is more likley to be a 6/lock from super rugby, rather than a straight 6. Also the Lions will play a big jumper at 6.
So I'd be pretty happy to see Barrett play 6 for the Crusaders v the Lions as an audition.
Kainos role in tests, as you note, is close hit ups, hit every ruck, lift in lineouts, scrum well. Moving a 7 over there - like Ardie, would literally be bringing in the total opposite.
Worth bearing in mind too, when considering 6, half the Fern regard Ruben Thorne as a joke, while 3 (4?) sets of AB selectors regarded him as utterly vital & pretty much every team he played in right through regarded him a a legend, so maybe the Fern collective should be looking for a 6 they have no idea why they keep getting picked & who has zero X factor - cause thats probably the guy that will in the selectors sights.
Luke Whitelock has already been mentioned.
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@kiwiinmelb said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
You have to look at the role Kaino plays in the set up. He is tasked to straight line carry in close and to drive attacks backward with dominant tackles.
Who is the closest we have to that?
Is it worth looking at Scott Barrett to do that job? Could help with the bench set up as well meaning 2 loosies to come on for impact.its funny you mentioned Barrett, I was thinking of him
Scott Barrett is not the finished article yet. Last week, he could not prevent Malherbe scoring his try though the latter was not running particularly hard. His missed tackle was a shocker. He will grow better as his older brother did but the Lions series may be a bit too early for him.
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@cgrant said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Scott Barrett is not the finished article yet. Last week, he could not prevent Malherbe scoring his try though the latter was not running particularly hard. His missed tackle was a shocker. He will grow better as his older brother did but the Lions series may be a bit too early for him.
With Kaino out he wouldn't need to be finished, he'd just have to be better than Squire, Dixon or Ardie playing on the wrong side.
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What are the options behind Kaino
- Luatua - I think he's too rangy in his approach to play international 6.
- Shields - this is his best season so far, he would have to grab his chance with both hands and then some, I doubt the risk is taken
- Squire - probably best bet IMO
- Dixon - totally underwhelming in black
- Taufua - too short realistically, waxes and wanes in form.
- Whitelock L - not everyone's cup of tea, but has put together a solid body of work in the last 2 seasons after an innocuous start
- Ye olde lock/6 type players: Barrett, Fafita etc
- Ye olde 6/7 - move Cane/Todd there etc - highly unlikely.
- Akira Ioane - man has he not kicked on. A wasted talent so far.
I don't think we need to worry yet TBH, a wee tidy up of a meniscal tear is minimal risk surgery, reckon Kaino will be back well in time myself.
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@gollum said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Super Rugby 6's play a LOT looser than test 6's, so the direct comparison for the tests is more likley to be a 6/lock from super rugby, rather than a straight 6. Also the Lions will play a big jumper at 6.
Don't be so sure about that. A lot of the media/ex-players' likely Lions test XV has Stander as their 6 and he's shorter than Cane.
I'm not advocating Cane as the AB blindside though, and I don't think Hansen will be selecting a newbie or a player with limited experience in that role if Kaino wasn't available.
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Re Luatua, what does "too rangy" mean?
He looks good going forward with the Blues and I think OK in the tight stuff also?
Agree if Kaino is not ready for the first test it's between Squire and Luatua, Squire probably first cab off the rank due to AB commitment if not much between them in ability. Scott Barrett in the mix here also.
Hope Kaino is back in full beast mode.
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@Billy-Tell said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
What are the options behind Kaino
- Luatua - I think he's too rangy in his approach to play international 6.
- Shields - this is his best season so far, he would have to grab his chance with both hands and then some, I doubt the risk is taken
- Squire - probably best bet IMO
- Dixon - totally underwhelming in black
- Taufua - too short realistically, waxes and wanes in form.
- Whitelock L - not everyone's cup of tea, but has put together a solid body of work in the last 2 seasons after an innocuous start
- Ye olde lock/6 type players: Barrett, Fafita etc
- Ye olde 6/7 - move Cane/Todd there etc - highly unlikely.
- Akira Ioane - man has he not kicked on. A wasted talent so far.
I don't think we need to worry yet TBH, a wee tidy up of a meniscal tear is minimal risk surgery, reckon Kaino will be back well in time myself.
How about 6. Read 7. Cane 8. Ardie with Squire on the bench..
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@Billy-Tell said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
- Shields - this is his best season so far, he would have to grab his chance with both hands and then some,
I like Shields, but I'm worried his hands would drop the chance
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@Billy-Tell said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Shields - this is his best season so far, he would have to grab his chance with both hands and then some, I doubt the risk is taken
he would probably drop it...
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@nzzp said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Billy-Tell said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
- Shields - this is his best season so far, he would have to grab his chance with both hands and then some,
I like Shields, but I'm worried his hands would drop the chance
Shields hands give me nightmares. I can see us hot on attack in the dying minutes going for the winning try and Shields shelling a simple pass to finish the game.
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@Bovidae said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@westcoastie said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Did Kaino win a Super title in 2003 with the Blues?
No, he debuted the following year.
I think Squire is better as an impact sub. He was poor in Chicago when he started. I'm sure Kaino will be fine but Messam is an experienced replacement if required. Like @mariner4life, I don't see Shields as an international quality loose forward.
I don't think you can rate anyone's ability in a test match on Chicago - that game was out of whack with everything, and Squire was a blindside in a team without recognised locks.
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@No-Quarter said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@nzzp said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@Billy-Tell said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
- Shields - this is his best season so far, he would have to grab his chance with both hands and then some,
I like Shields, but I'm worried his hands would drop the chance
Shields hands give me nightmares. I can see us hot on attack in the dying minutes going for the winning try and Shields shelling a simple pass to finish the game.
It's not evident if it's a technique issue or lack of concentration.
I recall both Nonu and Lauaki having big problems losing the ball regularly once they were tackled. Both worked on their technique of how they held the ball once they hit the deck.
I reckon Shields could address this.
What it will likely boil down to when it comes to replacements/squad members is their workrate/fitness. The metrics the AB coaches use aren't readily accessible for punters through basic stats.
It's interesting on Squire because I think many were surprised to see him make it when he did, but he has been a good impact player so far.
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If kaino isn't ready , I think they will back their system and give squire the start because he is probably seen as the next cab off the rank.
And have a barret / tuipolotu type on the bench with ardie .
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Kaino will be fine...
But if hes not, and we're thinking of a lock at 6... Do we move S.Whitelock and breakup the best second row combo on the planet, or do we put S.Barrett at 6 (who everyone seems to be suggesting)
If we move Whitelock, who plays lock? S.Barrett? Romano seems to be going ok with Retallick at the Chiefs (and combination)
Then what does the bench look like? Tuipolutu and A.Savea? No lock cover, but Squire and A.Savea instead? Some merit in starting with three locks on the field to have that kind of bench impact later - its not going to be an open running affair from the get go. In fact I think the first test will unfold similar to 2005, we'll probably concede the first score, get back into it, then grab a try with 10-15 to go when it gets loose to make it safe whilst defending at the end as the Lions try to catchup.
I think we'll smash the Lions in test 2 or 3...especially test three if we've won the first two and they look to be no chance with 30min to go in test 3. -
@mimic I like your 6,7,8 combo, but I think that having Read & Savea together, is going to lead to confusion about who plays what role, the AB want Read to play the wide channels from 8. (and why would you move one of the worlds best 8's?) if he plays 6, surely he'll be expected to do some of Kaino's grunt work at 6. From Jerry Collins to Kaino, the AB's want a 6 that will smash people and make strong carries. Does Savea do all of that?
The counter argument is that I could see the AB's going with 6. Cane 7. Savea 8. Read but mixing and matching some of Kainos roles. They'll want Read at the back of the scrum, but maybe would sacrifice his roaming stuff to allow Ardie to do that...
End of the day, Kaino will be fine. I've read the suggestion the ABs might be happy for him to have 30-50 min vs Samoa, and then start from the bench in Test 1. But I think he'll start test 1. and just be told to go until you're exhausted. They'll want experience from the start I reckon.
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Could R.McCaw do a B.Lochore?
Richie went looking for pen and paper to leave a note on the kitchen table, for his wife. It said: “Gemma, gone to Auckland to play in the First Test. Ring you later”. Then he hopped in his car, drove out of retirement and to the airport where he hopped into his helicopter and flew to Eden Park.
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Out of the AB forwards, apart from Read (as captain), Retallick and Whitelock are 80 mins players. I don't think they'll need to be replaced unless there is an injury. Having a specialist lock on the bench would be insurance if one of those two went down early. There could be a lock in the reserves but the impact is more likely via loose forwards with Read moving into lock if required.
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I think I was trying to imply, that if we went Retallick as a lock, and Whitelock/Barrett as a 6, then we could clearly go with no lock on the bench and use Squire & Savea (most likely) for impact.
I don't think we can go without a lock on the bench in this series, even allowing for the 80min men we currently possess. Ultimately, we still searching for that lock/loosie hybrid - theres probably a couple around, but no-one thats quite close enough to be considered.
