How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?
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@KiwiMurph said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@pukunui said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
SBW is going to be in a race against time to make it back and show some form. Don't think we can afford to carry an out of form SBW and Fekitoa when there are other options.
Who specifically would be the other options though? I can't see them discarding SBW and Fekitoa, seasoned test players, for rookies (even Ngatai only has one test). I'd say they'll bank on them to come right. Fekitoa doesnt seem to be in any worse form than the last season - defensively he is great. SBW's concussion issue is a worry though.
There are plenty of options. Not all in great form or with lots of test caps but that is why the shit form of Fekitoa and the lackluster return of SBW (and subsequent concussion) are a bit concerning. The options as i see them are:
Crotty: No brainer
ALB: No brainerIoane: good form, lots of potential, has been with the ABs before
SBW: has experience and proved his quality previously. However that was almost 2 years ago and he has been playing 7s and been injured ever since. Has looked a shadow of his former self since returning. His concussion may mean he has fewer games to get back up to speed.
Fekitoa: lots of experience now and awesome defence but has failed to kick on, seems to have lost his ability to make a break and has poor distribution.
Moala: decent amount of experience now. Has been decent in Black before but has been a bit meh for the Blues recently. Distribution not great. Probably a better winger.
Tamanivalu: Was ok in the couple of games he got for the ABs despite a few mistakes. Has been pretty good this year for the Crusaders even though he has been on the wing.
Proctor, Jordie, Buckman, Goodhue, Thompson, Laumape: uncapped but have been playing well, at times better than some of the incumbents. Jordie probably the only one with a chance here given his time with the ABs on EOYT.
Given that my four in order would be Crotty, ALB, Ioane (if he is not picked as a winger) and SBW. Hoping that SBW can find some form and maybe get a chance off the bench later in the series.
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How important has Crotty become now? Mr dependable with loads of experience in the ABs. If he goes down we're going to be playing rookies in the midfield which is both exciting and terrifying at the same time.
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I don't think you can pick Ioane as a midfielder until he logs more time there in Super rugby. Right now I think you've got to pick Fekitoa and just provide him with very clear responsibilities and then just let him work his butt off. (His workrate is still a positive).
I expect SBW to find some better form too.
My four midfielders are the most conservative options: Crotty, ALB, Fekitoa and SBW.
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@Frye yeah I'd be pretty nervous if Ioane is being thought as anything other than midfield cover at this stage. Would love to see him on the wing though, although there is a bit of a logjam there if all are fit.
I reckon Tamanivalu and Ioane are fighting for one spot. Probably the spot in the squad that Moala previously held.
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Just read the Hurricanes media release about the NZU20s team naming and the wording suggests it was Jordie's own decision not to go to the JWC in Georgia:
Another Hurricanes player, fullback Jordie Barrett, was originally named as vice-captain of the New Zealand Under 20s, but has decided to remain with the Investec Super Rugby squad.
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@Stargazer said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Just read the Hurricanes media release about the NZU20s team naming and the wording suggests it was Jordie's own decision not to go to the JWC in Georgia:
Another Hurricanes player, fullback Jordie Barrett, was originally named as vice-captain of the New Zealand Under 20s, but has decided to remain with the Investec Super Rugby squad.
Since he already played in a junior RWC and is now a starting Cane, that decision would have been a no brainer wouldn't it?
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@Crucial That team you picked looks pretty close to me. I reckon they'll go with Fekitoa over Ioane, but that's about it - though any of the extras you've identified are somewhere in the frame - and some like Harris, Patrick Tuipolotu, etc wouldn't be major surprises.
I guess Ardie Savea dropped out of the AB Sevens team last year - ostensibly to help the Canes - so it's not too surprising to me that JB would also favour the Canes over the U20s.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Yes, it makes sense. My point was more that they seem to have given him a choice, which I think is great.
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Hi all, regular browser, first time poster yada yaya...
That poster @jenlynx put across an opinion crudely and crassly, and I wouldn't really agree with it...but it does have a grain of truth unfortunately.
I think plenty of people will watch the tour on TV, although the numbers will be impacted by the fact that its on a paid subscription channel and the morning KO times. However, I don't get the sense that's there's a huge emotional investment in the Lions. People like to see players from their country make the squad and hope they play well on the tour but I'm not sure they're really too bothered about the results or the outcome. In fact the naming of the Lions squad is probably a bigger event than the tour!
It's a big honour for the players as they are essentially being recognised as among the elite in the NH and they do get referenced as "Lions" players in the intervening years.
The expectation is that NZ will win the series handily enough and I know a lot of fans are hoping that "their"players come through uninjured, as the tour impacts on some teams next season.
As for Sky TV, they make a lower league soccer game between Rotherham and Brentford seem like a major sporting event!
Anyway, I'll be an interested viewer hoping the Lions go well. Best of luck to NZ and hope we all enjoy the tour. -
Hi all, regular browser, first time poster yada yaya...
That poster @jenlynx put across an opinion crudely and crassly, and I wouldn't really agree with it...but it does have a grain of truth unfortunately.
I think plenty of people will watch the tour on TV, although the numbers will be impacted by the fact that its on a paid subscription channel and the morning KO times. However, I don't get the sense that's there's a huge emotional investment in the Lions. People like to see players from their country make the squad and hope they play well on the tour but I'm not sure they're really too bothered about the results or the outcome. In fact the naming of the Lions squad is probably a bigger event than the tour!
It's a big honour for the players as they are essentially being recognised as among the elite in the NH and they do get referenced as "Lions" players in the intervening years.
The expectation is that NZ will win the series handily enough and I know a lot of fans are hoping that "their"players come through uninjured, as the tour impacts on some teams next season.
As for Sky TV, they make a lower league soccer game between Rotherham and Brentford seem like a major sporting event!Anyway, I'll be an interested viewer hoping the Lions go well. Best of luck to NZ and hope we all enjoy the tour.
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This post is deleted!
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@Crucial said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@wowrp1 said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
Hi all, regular browser, first time poster yada yaya...
That poster @jenlynx put across an opinion crudely and crassly, and I wouldn't really agree with it...but it does have a grain of truth unfortunately.
I think plenty of people will watch the tour on TV, although the numbers will be impacted by the fact that its on a paid subscription channel and the morning KO times. However, I don't get the sense that's there's a huge emotional investment in the Lions. People like to see players from their country make the squad and hope they play well on the tour but I'm not sure they're really too bothered about the results or the outcome. In fact the naming of the Lions squad is probably a bigger event than the tour!
It's a big honour for the players as they are essentially being recognised as among the elite in the NH and they do get referenced as "Lions" players in the intervening years.
The expectation is that NZ will win the series handily enough and I know a lot of fans are hoping that "their"players come through uninjured, as the tour impacts on some teams next season.
As for Sky TV, they make a lower league soccer game between Rotherham and Brentford seem like a major sporting event!
Anyway, I'll be an interested viewer hoping the Lions go well. Best of luck to NZ and hope we all enjoy the tour.That's the kind of logic I was trying to goad out of the guy as well. I can see that pov entirely.
Do you think the level of interest changes with regard to the opposition though? eg the winning expectation against NZ is low and, as you say, the time difference is a bitch. Tours against SA are at prime time and are often a tighter contest.
The BIL are going through a cycle of Oz/NZ where the games are less accessible to the average watcher but despite that this is still the second richest rugby 'event' and you can bet your boots that should the BIL win every 'non interested person' will come out of the woodwork.
Yeah the time difference has an impact, the level of expectation less so. The fact that this is one of the "richest" events is a bit of a red herring. Actually the 6N would have a much. much, higher profile and level of interest, including casual fans. That's understandable though as it involves your home nation, is on at accessible times during the weekend, on terrestrial TV, there are huge numbers of travelling supporters and the obvious local rivalries. It dwarfs the Lions tour, notwithstanding the quality of rugby sometimes isn't great. I don't think anyone could expect the Lions to surpass it though, so that's ok in my opinion.
The tour is interesting and justifies it's existence I think. However there is a certain vocal element who question it's validity. -
@wowrp1 @Crucial
Yeah - I considered trying to get the guy to compromise on the ridiculous initial statement, but realised he'd drawn his line in the sand and was going to stick to it no matter what. And then got angry with myself for even engaging.
Yep, the low expectations for results in this particular tour probably lessens the appeal to many, which is a shame.When comparing it to the 6 Nations - I was quite confused about how popular those games are when I first arrived on these shores, but then thought about it a bit - internationals between very geographically-close countries (making it very very viable to "pop over to Rome to watch a game"), with rivalries (as in wars, not just rugby) dating back to before NZ existed; and with a reasonable number of the games being decent quality... it's a fairly tasty comp. I'm sure I'd enjoy it a lot more if I had a horse in the race. So yeah, the 6N is very likely to dwarf this particular tour.
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@Kruse said in How are the AB's tracking heading into the BIL series?:
@wowrp1 @Crucial
Yeah - I considered trying to get the guy to compromise on the ridiculous initial statement, but realised he'd drawn his line in the sand and was going to stick to it no matter what. And then got angry with myself for even engaging.
Yep, the low expectations for results in this particular tour probably lessens the appeal to many, which is a shame.When comparing it to the 6 Nations - I was quite confused about how popular those games are when I first arrived on these shores, but then thought about it a bit - internationals between very geographically-close countries (making it very very viable to "pop over to Rome to watch a game"), with rivalries (as in wars, not just rugby) dating back to before NZ existed; and with a reasonable number of the games being decent quality... it's a fairly tasty comp. I'm sure I'd enjoy it a lot more if I had a horse in the race. So yeah, the 6N is very likely to dwarf this particular tour.
Yeah the 6N is a bit of a rugby festival. A lot of viewers don't watch any other rugby during the year. Going to Edinburgh or Rome, for example, is great fun, as well as hosting the fans the Dublin.
But... I wouldn't disrespect the Lions tour. It has some historical relevance and is an interesting concept. Plus it's good to have some other rugby to watch when the season is over here. -
@wowrp1 welcome aboard. Hope you stick around. Good to have some more NH posters on the lead up to the BIL tour.
I think one thing the last tour of Australia showed was that there was still some fire in the belly from players for playing in the red jersey.
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all that stuff is valid, but it is also nice to have something different to watch - i guess it is more different for us (every 12 years) than for the NH guys being every 4 years. even so, that seems at least some sort of a drawcard to me over an every year 6 nations - or for us oz/sa/arg.
plus it's more of an old-school tour with games outside tests, and it's kinda cool getting to see guys who usually play against each other playing together. if we had the equivalent opportunity to see guys like burger, horan etc combining with some of the great ABs I think most nz fans would be keen to see it. -
@wowrp1 I will like any post that includes a David Mitchell clip. Welcome aboard!
That's a shame that it may not be regarded as such a big event over there. I was in London for both the Oz and SA lions series and found the tests as being 'must watch tv' amongst kiwi, aussie, saffer and english rugby fans. I'd still say all my mates over there will be watching the NZ lions series but that might be more reflective of who my friends were. Support certainly isn't anywhere near football levels.
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Thanks guys. There's actually a really good article in the Irish Times today IMO, written by Gordon D'Arcy, about the tour and the Lions in general. He makes the point that NZ should always beat the LIons but you always "hope for the impossible". It's probably a fair point and you never really know how the group will gel or the tour will go, it's so unpredictable in that sense, regardless of the test match results.
It will feel funny actually supporting players from a team like Saracens however!Gordon D’Arcy: No steeper rugby incline than a Lions tour
And facing the All Blacks in New Zealand is the ultimate test for any rugby team
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Meanwhile, All Blacks captain and No 8 Kieran Read, who broke his thumb playing for the Crusaders against the Cheetahs in Bloemfontein on April 30, said there is a chance he won't play a game before the first test against the British and Irish Lions on June 24. Read told Radio Sport he didn't want to rush back to action if the thumb was not fully healed. "In terms of match fitness I won't have too much to be honest going into that first test but I've done this gig a few times," he said. "I've got the confidence in myself that I can turn up and play at a high level. I'll back myself and I'll be good, ready to go."
