Reds v Hurricanes
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Reds v Hurricanes:
Game was a bit ordinary. Looked like it was going to be 30 nil at half-time, but the yellow card (what the hell was that for?) changed things and then of course the ref kept blowing for tries and then changing his mind. They have to fix this shit. The entire crowd, Reds fans included, went apeshit when he annulled that TJP try. Ultimately people want to be entertained not witness that kind of bullshit. That was goddam farcical.
Alternatively, the canes should not step into touch, not knock the ball on and when taking a quick tap, tap the ball ... These 3 are basics.
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@MajorRage said in Reds v Hurricanes:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Reds v Hurricanes:
Game was a bit ordinary. Looked like it was going to be 30 nil at half-time, but the yellow card (what the hell was that for?) changed things and then of course the ref kept blowing for tries and then changing his mind. They have to fix this shit. The entire crowd, Reds fans included, went apeshit when he annulled that TJP try. Ultimately people want to be entertained not witness that kind of bullshit. That was goddam farcical.
Alternatively, the canes should not step into touch, not knock the ball on and when taking a quick tap, tap the ball ... These 3 are basics.
I know you get a horn out of being a contrarian, but seriously man.
The point is that Gardner immediately blew his whistle for tries on 3 occasions(4? Can't remember there were so many) without even bothering to check with the TMO. The players had gone back to the positions and JB was about to take the kick. But suddenly a producer or someone put footage up on the big screen and Gardner goes "whoops my bad". Firstly it shows that his instincts to award the try immediately without checking are pretty damn poor. The first non-try in particular should always have gone to the TMO. If the ref is so sure of himself that he doesn't want to use the TMO then the decision he makes should be on him. That TJP tap happened right in front of him ffs. It kills the game as a spectacle and, as mentioned, even the Reds fans were getting seriously pissed off.
Is that ok, or do you have further bullshit snide comments to make?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Reds v Hurricanes:
contrarian
Calm down fella - seriously, whats the big deal and why the personal attack? Isn't this a forum for debating things?
The right outcome was there in each of the scenarios and isn't that all that matters? Remember when Barrett chased down Le Roux at Ellis Park and just got his foot in touch and the try was reversed? Were you shouting then that it would be better to get on with the game then and not deal with the bullshit?
But fella if you don't want to debate, and just have your opinion out there and only allow people to agree, thats cool. Will make a mental note.
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@MajorRage said in Reds v Hurricanes:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Reds v Hurricanes:
contrarian
Calm down fella - seriously, whats the big deal and why the personal attack? Isn't this a forum for debating things?
The right outcome was there in each of the scenarios and isn't that all that matters? Remember when Barrett chased down Le Roux at Ellis Park and just got his foot in touch and the try was reversed? Were you shouting then that it would be better to get on with the game then and not deal with the bullshit?
But fella if you don't want to debate, and just have your opinion out there and only allow people to agree, thats cool. Will make a mental note.
If you're going to post crap, I'll call you on it. And you've again just highlighted how you are completely incapable of understanding my original point. Your example is stupid. When BB chased down Le Roux, the ref immediately went to the TMO. Immediately. He didn't award the try, it wasn't announced on the loudspeaker that a try was scored, the players didn't return to their positions, the goal kicker wasn't lining up the kick. That happened repeatedly the other night and it was killing the game.
Do you get it now?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel Not going to deal with personal attacks mate.
There are two sides to this, regardless. Your point's aren't without vindication, granted. But what should Gardner do ... he's made the wrong decision, there is evidence in front of him showing him it's the wrong decison. Is he supposed to just ignore that? Then what happens if the reds lose by 4, and Gardner has awarded a try when there was evidence that he shouldn't have that he has seen? Imagine the outcry.
Is the current procedure perfect? Absolutely not. Are the correct rulings coming through at the end? Yes.
And for what it's worth ... Owens awarded Le Roux's try. And then referred it to the TMO after being advised to by the assistant ref.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel chill out man
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This issue has been ongoing for years now, and WR has been unwilling to even address it despite it bringing the game into disrepute on a number of occasions now.
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@MajorRage said in Reds v Hurricanes:
@Rancid-Schnitzel Not going to deal with personal attacks mate.
There are two sides to this, regardless. Your point's aren't without vindication, granted. But what should Gardner do ... he's made the wrong decision, there is evidence in front of him showing him it's the wrong decison. Is he supposed to just ignore that? Then what happens if the reds lose by 4, and Gardner has awarded a try when there was evidence that he shouldn't have that he has seen? Imagine the outcry.
Is the current procedure perfect? Absolutely not. Are the correct rulings coming through at the end? Yes.
And for what it's worth ... Owens awarded Le Roux's try. And then referred it to the TMO after being advised to by the assistant ref.
Did you not read what I wrote? He awarded the tries far too quickly without consulting either the TMO or other officials. At least 2 of those should have always gone to the TMO. That is what I'm complaining about. Do you understand that now? But yes thank you for those remarks about the Canes having to learn the basics.
The Le Roux rundown immediately went to the TMO. It was a piss poor comparison in relation to my criticisms about the other night.
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@MajorRage said in Reds v Hurricanes:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Reds v Hurricanes:
Game was a bit ordinary. Looked like it was going to be 30 nil at half-time, but the yellow card (what the hell was that for?) changed things and then of course the ref kept blowing for tries and then changing his mind. They have to fix this shit. The entire crowd, Reds fans included, went apeshit when he annulled that TJP try. Ultimately people want to be entertained not witness that kind of bullshit. That was goddam farcical.
Alternatively, the canes should not step into touch, not knock the ball on and when taking a quick tap, tap the ball ... These 3 are basics.
I agree. I have no issues with what happened, as the correct call was made.
I would only have an issue if the Reds got a try and a reply wasn't shown until after the conversion.Perhaps the kicker should go for the conversion quickly instead of celebrating to cancel out the calls made from the big screen..
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@mimic said in Reds v Hurricanes:
@MajorRage said in Reds v Hurricanes:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Reds v Hurricanes:
Game was a bit ordinary. Looked like it was going to be 30 nil at half-time, but the yellow card (what the hell was that for?) changed things and then of course the ref kept blowing for tries and then changing his mind. They have to fix this shit. The entire crowd, Reds fans included, went apeshit when he annulled that TJP try. Ultimately people want to be entertained not witness that kind of bullshit. That was goddam farcical.
Alternatively, the canes should not step into touch, not knock the ball on and when taking a quick tap, tap the ball ... These 3 are basics.
I agree. I have no issues with what happened, as the correct call was made.
I would only have an issue if the Reds got a try and a reply wasn't shown until after the conversion.Perhaps the kicker should go for the conversion quickly instead of celebrating to cancel out the calls made from the big screen..
And that's the problem that @Rancid-Schnitzel was talking about. It all comes down to what they play on the big screen. The tackle in the air on Savea didn't get replayed at all - gee I wonder why. I can almost guarantee that if the Reds were awarded the same try it would not be replayed until well after the fact.
So you essentially have the home TV crew influencing decisions that have a big impact on the match. It's farcical and I am amazed that WR has not addressed it at all.
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@No-Quarter Yeah, I agree, you'd think WR would have got involved by now. I have no issue that the correct result was reached. However, I do think there is an issue with what gets replayed - there were a couple of times I'm surprised the TMO didn't check when the decision would have gone against the Reds. So, I guess the TMO only gets the Fox feed and can't chose to check stuff themselves.
TBH, I think Gardiner is a great ref, and I think he'll take learnings from this, probably to ask for TMOs to check stuff more in the future - which may turn out to be a bad thing in the long run as no ref will want to make an on field decision anymore.
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and it isn't like this hasn't been happening for years now too...think the decision to (correctly) not award Cowan a try a few years back, despite it being outside the parameters of the TMO was one of the first instances I can recall, although that was TMO not local producer, so probably not great example haha....but they are becoming more frequent, with Owens awarding a try and then over turning it himself based on video replay, first time he did it was in the RWC.
Surely it wouldn't take much to tweak the rule to make allowances for these circumstances, although we don't want refs to second guess themselves and not award a try for fear of getting it wrong and being overturned by the TV replays.
It does seem daft that local TV producers can unfairly influence the ref.
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Wow ... something must have escalated to get RS banned .. I don't disagree with his points, but in each situation, the right decision was ultimately made. Thus, I'd prefer focus to be on the Canes for the mistakes than the referee taking the time to find them.
Anyway, I was only watching background, but I thought in each situation after he awarded it, he was informed by the TMO / AR to check it out, not by what he saw on TV.
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I don't clearly recall the Surveyor incident. Was there an immediate stoppage in play? Seems to me that a try no try will inevitably attract more scrutiny but I agree there need to be rules. Am I mistaken in thinking at the cricket that they use a stadium feed as opposed to the broadcasters feed? Surely this can be done with rules governing it's use
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@MajorRage said in Reds v Hurricanes:
Wow ... something must have escalated to get RS banned .. I don't disagree with his points, but in each situation, the right decision was ultimately made. Thus, I'd prefer focus to be on the Canes for the mistakes than the referee taking the time to find them.
Anyway, I was only watching background, but I thought in each situation after he awarded it, he was informed by the TMO / AR to check it out, not by what he saw on TV.
He just kept on whining about having posts deleted.
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Often more replays are shown on the TV than at the ground. The big change now is that the ref uses the big screen to view replays in conjunction with the TMO/ARs. The TMO should have multiple camera views available to them so will always be able to correct a mistake.
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@Bovidae said in Reds v Hurricanes:
Often more replays are shown on the TV than at the ground. The big change now is that the ref uses the big screen to view replays in conjunction with the TMO/ARs. The TMO should have multiple camera views available to them so will always be able to correct a mistake.
Yeah I think too much is made of what gets shown on the big screen st the ground given what is available. We don't know what is in the mind of the ref and it may well be that there is doubt even when a try or foul play has been ruled and the TMO process can then play out.
The big screen may or may not add to that doubt, but more often than not the TMO with superior view can provide more certainty.
It isn't a flawless system because human judgment is still relied upon, but I don't think what happened in this match was a major problem.
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@Nepia said in Reds v Hurricanes:
@No-Quarter Yeah, I agree, you'd think WR would have got involved by now. I have no issue that the correct result was reached. However, I do think there is an issue with what gets replayed - there were a couple of times I'm surprised the TMO didn't check when the decision would have gone against the Reds. So, I guess the TMO only gets the Fox feed and can't chose to check stuff themselves.
TBH, I think Gardiner is a great ref, and I think he'll take learnings from this, probably to ask for TMOs to check stuff more in the future - which may turn out to be a bad thing in the long run as no ref will want to make an on field decision anymore.
Angus will probably also learn not to let himself get talked into a ruling by a yappy halfback when flustered.
Correct ruling would have been a scrum to the Reds after TJP didn't clearly take the tap (21.4(d))
I have only ever seen this sanction used once though and the player blew up at the ref so hard that the Union made him go to an anger management course before he was allowed to take the field again.
Usually if the ref sees it he gets the penalty to be re-taken properly.
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