All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.
-
All this talk of respect - seriously, fuck off.
Year and years of Richie's a cheat, New Zealanders are classless, the constant fucking moaning against everything NZ rugby, the pissing and bitching from Aussies during RWC visit, I'm totally fucking over it.
I really can't be fucked with insults & advice from Australians about respect in sporting circles.
On the whole, I've done my best over the years to provide some reason where I think we are getting ahead of ourselves / shown arrogance / demeaned the opposition. But over this weekend, there has been a clear narrative to do everything in their power for global "neutrals" to demean the fantastic achievement of 18 wins in a row and divert attention away from it. The usual shit of Ab's offside (we were, we got penalised btw), AB's favouritism from refs, and then the final nail if this shower of shitness, the global attention on Chieka's whinge being FAR FAR greater than that of the achievement of this bunch of blokes.
And people want to talk to us about respect, or lack there of.
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Again, other than vague references to taking the little ball he had to the line, when and where was he supposed to have taken control? It was the first half, the abs had scored 3 tries despite losing the collisions and missing too many tackles. Id be delighted to know what past legends would have done any differently? Dan Carter played in a shitload of games when the abs were down at half time despite being arguably the better team. Was he then not taking control of the game? Not being direct enough?
I'm all for fair criticism and fill your boots about the goal kicking thing, but this "take control" things appears to be based more on preconceived notions than anything that actually occurred during the game.
Dan Carter? Yes, he was regularly criticised for not taking control of the game especially towards the end of his career.
But you're right, 'control/influence' is a hard thing to quantify because there are no direct stats for it. And not made any easier in this case because Cruden wasn't a perfect comparison when he came on. But if I was to have a crack, it would be this:
Barrett played about 50 mins during which time ABs had 33% possession. Cruden played about 30 mins during which ABs enjoyed 37% possession, so a little more (and slightly better quality) but not a huge difference.
Barrett's kick-run-pass-metres run stats were 1-7-1-0. Cruden's were 7-15-6-27.
My interpretation is that one player is demanding the ball in his hands and trying to make things happen and the other isn't. I'm sure your interpretation is different. But I think it's more informative than pointing at the number of tries that were scored while each player was on.
Just to be clear, I think Barrett is deservedly our starting first -five. I just don't think his general performance this time was particularly dominant. But we're obviously never going to agree so I'll just leave it there.
-
@MajorRage said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
, the global attention on Chieka's whinge being FAR FAR greater than that of the achievement of this bunch of blokes.
What do you think is going to generate more clicks for a UK site?
-
Lauding the ABs record - particularly given the next 4 games will all be records.
-
Telling their audience that New Zealand in general doesn't respect anyone else
Let's remember their business is not to do what's right or friendly.
-
-
@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@MajorRage said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
, the global attention on Chieka's whinge being FAR FAR greater than that of the achievement of this bunch of blokes.
What do you think is going to generate more clicks for a UK site?
-
Lauding the ABs record - particularly given the next 4 games will all be records.
-
Telling their audience that New Zealand in general doesn't respect anyone else
Let's remember their business is not to do what's right or friendly.
You can't see any irony at all in this position?
-
-
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
The post-game presser has overshadowed the match itself in the coverage here, and I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.
Cheika bit too hard on the newspaper cartoon, for sure. It's just a paper FFS, their job is to stir the pot. The same thing happens here all the time. By reacting you just play into their hands, and the old phrase is as true as ever - 'don't pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrell'.
I think the truth on Cheika is somewhere in the middle, as it always is. I actually like the fact he speaks his mind, and is unafraid to be a bit controversial in the media. Our game needs all the headlines it can get, and fuck's sake we can all be a bit too precious about things sometimes.
We're all allowed to come on here and froth over what happens in a game, and yet somehow we expect our coaches and players (who actually have skin in the game) to be paragons of grace and impartiality. I don't want Cheika to fawn over the ABs at every post-game presser. We know they're great, but they are our enemy! I don't want them to love each other, I like that both sides hate losing to one another.bolded text
That said, Cheika does need to tone it down a touch. Just a touch. Being controversial in post-game media conferences is a risky game, and there isn't much difference between being Wayne Bennett and being Piet de Villiers. He's probably a bit too close to PDiv right now, and just needs to take a deep breath.
I get that and you get coaches at all age groups and all levels losing their shit at some stage. But for a guy who is supposed to be a professional and an adult, he showed an incredible amount of immaturity and childish behaviour at that press conference. I mean, he wasn't getting unfair or hard questions about his record this season or whether his job was on the line. All they asked him was what he thought about the 18 win record. He could have just said great achievement or something. But instead he went on some rant how they (the abs) don't care about what he thinks because of the Herald picture and the bug thing.
At the end of the day, us guys here are keyboard nobodies who can rant and rave without any consequences. He's the Aus coach ffs and should at least act with the level of maturity expected of that position. I'd be straight out embarrassed if an ab coach had a tanty like that. Just compare Henry's response in 2007 to Cheika's now. Again, yes pressure and disappointment, but that's no excuse for acting like a toddler.
-
Well, the Walrus has "taken to" Twitter to express his outrage.....
-
@MN5 Well if the Walrus is defending the Clown, then he's got real problems.
-
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@MN5 Well if the Walrus is defending the Clown, then he's got real problems.
I think if he found documentation of Hitler talking about lack of respect from the ABs in the 20's and 30s he'd back the fuhrer up.
I'm not quite sure how whinging like a bitch is "courageous" either.....fuck the Welsh must be a bunch of cowardly sons of bitches.....
-
@rotated said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Both were regurgitated in the News and Fairfax press. The point has been repeated on other occasions too.
So you've found one clip from Kearns and one from Kafer. And I'm not sure they were 'regurgitated' by anyone.
But as always, you've exaggerated it as if EVERY Aussie journo was HOUNDING McCaw for not thanking the Wallabies.
Actually, my memory of the coverage post-game was pretty even handed, with 99% acknowledging the ABs greatness and lauding a valiant Wallaby defeat.
This debate has enough animosity on either side without you fabricating issues that never were.
-
@MN5 said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Well, the Walrus has "taken to" Twitter to express his outrage.....
As far as I can tell the headline should be, "Stephen Jones slams all referees except NZ's as incompetent" or even "Stephen Jones calls for NZ refs to referee All Blacks".
If all the other countries' referees, including his countryman Nigel Owens, are so in awe of the ABs and so weak witted they bow down to them and give them favourable calls, then this is surely the only solution.
Since our refs don't referee the ABs , we're seemingly the only country not at fault.
-
@Marty said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Again, other than vague references to taking the little ball he had to the line, when and where was he supposed to have taken control? It was the first half, the abs had scored 3 tries despite losing the collisions and missing too many tackles. Id be delighted to know what past legends would have done any differently? Dan Carter played in a shitload of games when the abs were down at half time despite being arguably the better team. Was he then not taking control of the game? Not being direct enough?
I'm all for fair criticism and fill your boots about the goal kicking thing, but this "take control" things appears to be based more on preconceived notions than anything that actually occurred during the game.
Dan Carter? Yes, he was regularly criticised for not taking control of the game especially towards the end of his career.
But you're right, 'control/influence' is a hard thing to quantify because there are no direct stats for it. And not made any easier in this case because Cruden wasn't a perfect comparison when he came on. But if I was to have a crack, it would be this:
Barrett played about 50 mins during which time ABs had 33% possession. Cruden played about 30 mins during which ABs enjoyed 37% possession, so a little more (and slightly better quality) but not a huge difference.
Barrett's kick-run-pass-metres run stats were 1-7-1-0. Cruden's were 7-15-6-27.
My interpretation is that one player is demanding the ball in his hands and trying to make things happen and the other isn't. I'm sure your interpretation is different. But I think it's more informative than pointing at the number of tries that were scored while each player was on.
Just to be clear, I think Barrett is deservedly our starting first -five. I just don't think his general performance this time was particularly dominant. But we're obviously never going to agree so I'll just leave it there.
It's ridiculous to compare players who are on the park at such vastly different stages of the game. The comparison is absolutely meaningless. Sorry to knit pick, but BB was hooked after 44 minutes, so Cruder essentially played the entire 2nd half.
Of course it wasn't his greatest performance, but you've still yet to pinpoint any stage of the first half when him demanding the ball and taking on the line would have made any difference to the result. You weren't claiming anything about a dominant performance, you claimed that this game was evidence that he was unable to control a game when the forwards were getting munched. Obviously I find that criticism to be more than a little unfair.
-
honestly why does anyone give any sort of a shit about what cheika says, about what the herald prints, about what kafer or kearns have said, or the smh printed in the past?
i just don't get it. isn't it the actual rugby that we're meant to be interested in?
-
-
@NTA Good article on the TMO. I'd just be happy to change the review so that it wasn't dependent on a conversion attempt.
While there I made the error of looking at the match thread. Hahaha holy fuck some people are in desperate need of mental health intervention.
-
shame that Pfitzy guy doesnt post here, seems pretty reasonable, instead we are stuck with the likes of @NTA and irrational spinners like him!
-
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
"I'll give BB benefit of the doubt due to illness but my fear of him not taking control in this type of game came to fruition. I understand the argument that he didm't get much ball to use but that could also mean that he didn't impose himself and demand it (as DC would have done in the past."
Comical post. I reckon he should have charged into the rucks and mauls (maybe lineouts and scrums too) to get his hands on the ball. Just watching that first half I'm at a loss as to what he was supposed to have done to take control. Oh yeah, he should have demanded more ball and run to the line. Or something...
RS, I'm sure you understand the game better than that.
As a 10 it is part of your job description to take control because you are in a prime position to influence. I haven't watched the game again and maybe you are correct regarding the lack of opportunities to take control that he had. It may even be the way the ABs now play that they aren't putting that traditional 'generalship' on the 10. I just know that usually if you are in an arm wrestle game the 10 should be looking to demand the ball whenever available and start directing the way things are going. Cruden's execution may have been poor at times but he immediately started looking to put the ball into spaces and change things up.
I just expect to see more game direction from a 10.
Again, could you please explain when and how he was supposed to have done this. They had fark all ball when he was on the park and the game opened up a shit load more after he was gone. I can't see what Carter would have done differently (other than kick goals of course) unless his very presence would have magically given the abs more possession.
This criticism is absolutely ridiculous. The abs were attacking pretty well when they had the pill. The issues were in defence and in tight. How Barrett was supposed to be the man to take control and fix that is beyond me.
All of the above... when we had the ball we scored tries in the first half, we just didn't hold onto it well enough the thing was Australia weren't capable of making us pay for how casual or affected by the 18th test we were.
We got the wobbles - embracing it didn't work for us as well as embracing the William Webb Ellis cup did last two RWC's.We are massively blessed to have Beaudy and Ben Smith at the moment, Cruden did made some truly bizarre choices - and TBH you can't compare what happened in the first half v. the second when we were able to reset and play better.
I keep referring to our bar-talk, but almost universally we said wait till the 60th minute and literally thats when the Aussies when balls-up.
One more thing, Cruden hardly had an influence either except to hand the ball back over really. Ben Smith was responsible for at least two of the second half tries, if he'd been at right wing for Dagg, and Beaudy was at fullback, I'm willing to wager Beaudy would've created the same tries too, hence our outlook on his performance is different.Couple of things, if BB did have an ear infection, why not start Cruden, bring BB off the bench, does Hansen now think a 75% BB is a better option than a 100% Cruden?
You'd love to have an honest convo with the selectors without the PC BS to ask, what exactly is the pecking order now? apart from kicking, what the heck else do we need BB to do better?
time in the saddle will give him a bit more authority to demand that ball more than 9 times in a half.
I'd wager 2004-2005 DC couldn't just demand the ball, but had to grow into it, although there were a lot of younger guys growing & establishing themselves at the same time back then.
My point is you can't judge BB in his first year as the full-time AB #10 - with DC as the full-time AB #10 in his last years.Speaking of which, thats some weird similarities - BB first year at full-time #10, B&I Lions next year. DC first year #10, Lions following year. As long as BB doesn't cop an injury in our RWC Quarter Final in 2019, we're good.
-
@Rocky-Rockbottom said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I wrote a piece on the TMO Protocol on GAGR. Head over there and have a read.
Not much use heading over there. Match thread quickly locked. Didnt even last the weekend. Same as the World Cup Final thread. Hurriedly shut down after the loss. Nothing to talk about here. Never happened. I sense a recurring pattern.
Haha oh yes that was a goody wasn't it? Isn't there another forum where you can say what you like without threads getting closed or getting banned? Although being banned doesn't appear to be forever anymore, eh?
