All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.
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@Marty said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Jesus, the way you're banging on you'd think we were getting hammered and severely under the cosh. But the abs were farking leading at half time and if BB had had his kicking boots on the buffer would have been rather healthy. So you have a team that has scored 3 tries to 1 and is leading at the break and you reckon that's a poor reflection on the flyhalf, who has had little ball to work with?
I'm sure BB would have become much more involved as the game wore on, but it's absurd to criticise him for a first half performance when the abs scored 3 tries with 35% possession. But I'm sure if he put his head down and took the ball to the line those stats would look so much better and the forwards would start winning the collisions and making tackles.
No, I said I didn't think Barrett's general play was as influential as it has been previously and it might be an insight into his ability to take control of a game where his forwards are getting beaten. Then I pointed out that other first fives in history have been able to do that in similar situations and that probably comes with experience.
Again, other than vague references to taking the little ball he had to the line, when and where was he supposed to have taken control? It was the first half, the abs had scored 3 tries despite losing the collisions and missing too many tackles. Id be delighted to know what past legends would have done any differently? Dan Carter played in a shitload of games when the abs were down at half time despite being arguably the better team. Was he then not taking control of the game? Not being direct enough?
I'm all for fair criticism and fill your boots about the goal kicking thing, but this "take control" things appears to be based more on preconceived notions than anything that actually occurred during the game.
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@NTA the other issue, as i'm sure you're aware nick, is that savea broke the law first by interfering with DHP who didn't have the ball. i don't think that was bad enough to be penalised either, but if the ref is going to be a pedant they should at least be a proper pedant.
the whole thing to me was just 2 guys jostling for the same position, as happens all the time - savea lost because he was behind. play on.
as for savea throwing his hands up and bleating to the ref rather than trying to play the game. well. habana-esque. -
@NTA I think it fits more into rule A....
(a) Charging or pushing. When a player and an opponent are running for the ball, either player must not charge or push the other except shoulder-to-shoulder.
Sanction: Penalty kickMate, our media are a bunch of fluffybunnies, I wasnt defending them, or the clown thing, just stating the constant banging on about the ABs as being cheats it as bad if not worse IMO, and this comes form all media, not just Aussie ones.
Just I think the Aussie media think the sheep jokes are still amusing....
As I havent watched the game properly on TV I am not sure what Moore was like with Owens this time, but it didnt appear he was whining the whole game which he seems to have been doing most other games, and he played much better this time too (used to be my fave Aussie player, if one can have such a thing
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What I find odd about the Mumm-Retallick thing was that Retallick seemed ot be struggling after the impact and I dont recall him leaving the field, but we hear after he has had concussion, one assumes from this incident...so either the Dr's let him stay on or he knew how to pass the test??
Seemed odd we kept Whitelock on too when he seemed to be limping heavily the whole time with 3 rolls of taping on his foot.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@NTA I think it fits more into rule A....
(a) Charging or pushing. When a player and an opponent are running for the ball, either player must not charge or push the other except shoulder-to-shoulder.
Sanction: Penalty kickNup - that is running only for the ball. Not a ball carrier.
So it covers the Coles/Foley situation, for example
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@NTA Savea is running for the ball...Speight has it, basic fundamental of rugby, get the ball!
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I also find it funny how before the match everyone was bitching about Julian's selection and afterward voting for him in MOTM votes. He did exactly the thing I wanted to see him there to do. A Lomu-esque run to break the game open. I haven't seen Naholo do that.
Excuse me, @Bones and were fluffing Savea as hard as we could before the match in the face of all the detractors. Bones even posted evidence to back up our fluffing (very rare on the Fern).
Now the MOTM poll has him as one of our top 3 peformers. I feel very vindicated.
Don't leave me out of the Savea fluffers!
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The post-game presser has overshadowed the match itself in the coverage here, and I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.
Cheika bit too hard on the newspaper cartoon, for sure. It's just a paper FFS, their job is to stir the pot. The same thing happens here all the time. By reacting you just play into their hands, and the old phrase is as true as ever - 'don't pick a fight with someone who buys ink by the barrell'.
I think the truth on Cheika is somewhere in the middle, as it always is. I actually like the fact he speaks his mind, and is unafraid to be a bit controversial in the media. Our game needs all the headlines it can get, and fuck's sake we can all be a bit too precious about things sometimes.
We're all allowed to come on here and froth over what happens in a game, and yet somehow we expect our coaches and players (who actually have skin in the game) to be paragons of grace and impartiality. I don't want Cheika to fawn over the ABs at every post-game presser. We know they're great, but they are our enemy! I don't want them to love each other, I like that both sides hate losing to one another.
That said, Cheika does need to tone it down a touch. Just a touch. Being controversial in post-game media conferences is a risky game, and there isn't much difference between being Wayne Bennett and being Piet de Villiers. He's probably a bit too close to PDiv right now, and just needs to take a deep breath.
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@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
That said, Cheika does need to tone it down a touch. Just a touch. Being controversial in post-game media conferences is a risky game, and there isn't much difference between being Wayne Bennett and being Piet de Villiers. He's probably a bit too close to PDiv right now, and just needs to take a deep breath.
Particularly when you're going first, and all the Kiwi media in the room now have something to tell Steve Hansen in the fashion they wish.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Bones it's a shit call because savea made first contact, and the Aussie was running a valid support line. If that were called every time it happened the game would be a joke.
The law is pretty clear that you can't run a support line that impedes a would be tackler. If the law changes to your way then chasing defenders could be shoved away by "support" players. That really would be a joke.
The only questionable aspect of this call was materiality. DHP put himself in the hands of a notoriously crap TMO and lost the gamble. If Savea wasn't a risk to Speight then he didn't need to touch him or run a support line either.what, so you can't run a support line between a defender and the ball once a break has been made? come on, that happens all the time, and if it were penalised all the time the game would be a farce and most of the great breakout tries ever scored would be called back. savea pushed the aussie first, then got shoved back as the aussie continued to try to run valid support lines, then savea complained to the ref. if the situations had been reversed i would have been screaming at the tv.
No doubt. Feel free to penalise Savea and everyone else that impedes players without the ball, we might see some more tries scored.
But you can't run a serious support line behind someone and we don't want to see NFL style blocking.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
But you can't run a serious support line behind someone and we don't want to see NFL style blocking.
Definitely.
I was thinking about the situation again this morning in another context:
- ball carrier is a prop, running in the tram tracks
- Only the fullback in front, but defending backs chasing hard
- Centre running in support, on the outside
- As the prop gets closer to the defending fullback, his centre cuts inside, and puts his hands up to catch an offload
- Collides with a defending winger, having not seen the guy coming.
- Prop runs over the fullback (naturally) and scores.
Now obviously you could visualise this any number of ways, and again, depending where the collision happens, it might produce a different result.
But the intent from DHP appears clear on the replay, where this situation would be different.
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
That said, Cheika does need to tone it down a touch. Just a touch. Being controversial in post-game media conferences is a risky game, and there isn't much difference between being Wayne Bennett and being Piet de Villiers. He's probably a bit too close to PDiv right now, and just needs to take a deep breath.
Particularly when you're going first, and all the Kiwi media in the room now have something to tell Steve Hansen in the fashion they wish.
The media in the press conference were fine, they seemed bemused more than anything about Chieka's overreaction and conveyed it pretty accurately to Hansen.
Remember it was only the NZ Herald that was being dicks.
He was asked for his comment on the world record, a perfectly reasonable question. His reply was unprofessional and immature.
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It was a curious response to being asked about the achievement given the Aussie media have been hounding the ABs for not delivering a soliloquy honouring the loser of the past two Word Cup finals.
I imagine the Rugby 360 guys will be super dissapointed in Cheika.
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@rotated said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
the Aussie media have been hounding the ABs for not delivering a soliloquy honouring the loser of the past two Word Cup finals.
No they haven't. That's just bullshit right there.
I'm not saying our media is better than yours, or any such thing. Both are pretty equal tbh in the 'even-handed' way they view the game in each nation.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
What I find odd about the Mumm-Retallick thing was that Retallick seemed ot be struggling after the impact and I dont recall him leaving the field, but we hear after he has had concussion, one assumes from this incident...so either the Dr's let him stay on or he knew how to pass the test??
Seemed odd we kept Whitelock on too when he seemed to be limping heavily the whole time with 3 rolls of taping on his foot.
Kaino was already off with Squire on. I'm not sure if Aride replaced Todd at that point as well. Who were we going to replace Whitelock with?
I think Kaino came on for BBBR later on due to concussion. Unless there was blood?
I don't know the substitution rules anymore. -
My question re: Cheiks is this. He has won 30% of games this season has won 56% of games as a coach. I believe they would have struggled against Argentina had they played them in Argentina.
They have signed him until the next world cup. If he loses say 2/5 (England and/or Wales/Ireland) on the EYOT would they cut him?
Who would be in the hunt to replace him and who would actually want to take them over could potentially be career suicide. We can harp on about them turning up at Eden Park but if the All Blacks turned up and lost by 27 this forum would be going nuts.
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@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@rotated said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
the Aussie media have been hounding the ABs for not delivering a soliloquy honouring the loser of the past two Word Cup finals.
No they haven't. That's just bullshit right there.
Both were regurgitated in the News and Fairfax press. The point has been repeated on other occasions too.
Sadly, the selfishness didn't end there McCaw didn't even thank his coaches, teammates, God or his family - there is no speech portion of the trophy giving ceremony.
Following his comments re: Owens on Saturday I would hope Kafer is put on medical leave - for all the qualms we have about Marshall I can't quite say we have equivalents to this dross.
