Aussie Pro Rugby
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@nta said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Just scanning team sheets of some old opponents. Three guys listed in our private group have fucked off to other clubs.
Sick of this shit. Some of these Islander guys will change their fucking mind on the way to the game.
Fair play for all the work you do but if I was at your club I’d piss off too, you sound like a real tosser to deal with
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There you go Nick. You’re a tosser.
Apparently.
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Have you ever thought that it's maybe your dictatorial style Nick? I mean making people pay subs and expecting a little bit of loyalty really is beyond the pale.
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@catogrande I do suffer from the character flaw of despising liars.
If that makes me a tosser, so be it.The club has had people of all walks of life play for it (even a Muslim who finds Ramadan a struggle to keep his energy up). As long as they contribute, they're welcomed.
I could understand if the individuals in particular came to me and said they were going to play somewhere else, that's fine. Don't even give a fuck about the reason, but I give several fucks about the communication, or lack thereof.
What shits me is we set up game day plans based on who said they were coming earlier in the week, and some guys went to another club literally Saturday.
Others simply didn't turn up, and didn't give a reason - maybe they had emergencies and couldn't get in contact, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for now.
Look at it this way: if someone turned up when we promised them game time and then we let them rot in the bench, that would be no better.
We've done everything to try and make playing for the club easy, and value for money, without bias against anyone based on race, beliefs, or other preferences.
We were approached to accept pay by the week instead of committing the full amount (which is about the lowest in the whole competition anyway).
I fought for that despite opposition from several on the committee. Now it's there, the people who wanted it are gone, my stalwarts are going to pick up more injuries playing a Grade above their age, and we will be lucky to have 1 team by the end of the season.
In 2016 the club got kicked out of the comp because a few guys who never paid us a cent started a brawl in First Grade.
The committee at the time asked me to be President (I was second grade coach at the time - and the team was a mix of everyone from just about everywhere across Australasia and the Pacific), and help sort out the culture issues. At the very start we all agreed that financial commitment was important to get playing commitment. That gets tested every year when guys - who admittedly could go play league for $200+ a week - start getting cold feet about anything to do with money.
Over and above the fact the competition is fully amateur, we can't afford to pay anyone anyway. By the time we've paid our bills and donated some money to a local kids hospital as per our constitution, there is basically nothing left. We've got no club house, have to beg Council for anything we DO get in terms of a playing field, and no rich benefactors.
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@rancid-schnitzel said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Have you ever thought that it's maybe your dictatorial style Nick? I mean making people pay subs and expecting a little bit of loyalty really is beyond the pale.
Would even take a bit of open communication as a substitute for loyalty.
Not like we can enforce no train = no play. Otherwise we'd field 12 blokes every week!
Guys have to work shifts sometimes. That's cool. Just tell me! -
I've been running a rugby club for five+ years, and managed other sports too and it is always a bitch, it's either money, commitment or both. If trying to enforce such outrageous shit like paying your fees and informing people if you are going to show up or not makes me a tosser, then so be it. It is not like the guy who promises to play and then lets 15 other guys down by not showing up or showing up with the opposition isn't a tosser.
People just don't either realize how much hours someone has to put in for free just to get a pitch for training or playing or just plain don't care. And those people are the tossers. not the guys giving up their free time to organize shit and only asking a bit of accountability in exchange.
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I'm hassling NSW Sport about some grant funding. If that comes through, and the club budget looks healthy enough, I might actually scrap rego fees and refund the guys who have paid in full
Still gotta pay for shorts and socks tho...Its a fucking hassle taking weekly funds from people on game day - particularly away games where the Treasurer is often playing.
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So in Premier Rugby here in Sydney there are 12 clubs:
Sydney Uni, Randwick, Eastern Suburbs, Southern Districts, North Sydney, Manly, Warringah, Eastwood, Gordon, Parramatta, Penrith, West Harbour
Each club is expected to field 4 Grade teams and 3 Colts teams. Typically one Club will host the Seniors match, while the other hosts the Colts - easier than trying to schedule 7 games in one day! Worth adding that a lot of these clubs do have 2 fields they could host on.
I went through the teamsheets of both Parramatta and Penrith for the weekend to get a bit of a barometer for how Western Sydney is travelling:
Sydney Uni Grade hosted Parramatta and results by Grade were:
36-12
39-10
45-7
33-14
Those aren't bad results for Parramatta overall. No blowouts* and some competitive rugby played by all accounts.Parramatta hosted Uni Colts:
15-48
12-66
Forfeit by Parramatta to UniThis set of results is a bit more concerning, particularly a home forfeit.
There is a widespread belief that Sydney Uni farms Colts talent - to the point where a couple of years back an Australia U20 hooker was playing Colts 2nd XV for Uni because there is a restriction of 2 x rep players per game. So yeah, they already had 2 x U20 national players in Colts 1
Southern Grade hosted Penrith and the results were
62-7
104-nil
102-5
89-nil
Well, I can't say I'm surprised. Penrith often struggle for numbers and without looking at teamsheets, I'll bet there was a bit of backing up going on. Plus its a long trip, particularly if you're working Saturdays.Penrith Colts hosted Southern:
19-109
7-83
33-17So Penrith got a win in Colts 3, and while (again) this was a long trip for Southern, I can't help thinking Penrith stacked up a bit in order to be competitive here, and threw the other two grades on the sacrificial altar.
Its an improvement on the last few years where Penrith struggled to field Colts at all...
This is Western Sydney Rugby. While its only week 1, it shows that things aren't getting better, and the call from Sydney Rugby Union to boot Penrith unless they lift their game is not without merit.
It isn't just player numbers: its back office as well.
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Opinion piece by Alan Jones in The Australian
It’s been another week in which rugby continues with its self-inflicted wounds.
It is not believable that the only thing Raelene Castle seems to have done, after months in charge of Rugby Australia, is to haul in Israel Folau for comments that he made about homosexual people and the Bible. And then Castle couldn’t wait to rush out to the media after the meeting, as if this was a defining moment of her leadership.
Here was a leader, she wanted to suggest, who could take action. What’s that famous line from The Castle? “Tell (her she’s) dreamin”.
This is not where rugby-lovers expect action to be taken.
This issue has nothing to do, in my opinion, with gays or with the Bible.
It is simply called freedom, in this case freedom of speech, and Folau, along with every other Australian, ought to be free to express his views.
But of course Rugby Australia, leaderless and often gutless, are terrified of losing a Qantas sponsorship.
Qantas objecting to what Folau is saying about homosexuality is beyond laughable.
I don’t agree with Israel but I’ve told him most explicitly that he must not back down.
He is entitled to his views.
Or are Rugby Australia going to next tell him what to eat and what time to get up?
Qantas says that it supports LGBTI rights and acceptance. Then we hear from a Qantas spokesman (oops, should that be spokesperson?) and note how such a person purports to speak for the whole of Qantas and believes emphatically that they have a right to have their views accepted, a right they will not extend to Folau.
What is worse, Qantas is saying that it condemns Folau’s comments. Qantas finds the comments disappointing. I beg your pardon? Aren’t Qantas in partnership with Emirates Airlines and aren’t the Islamic injunctions against homosexuality in the United Arab Emirates totally oppressive of homosexuals?
Indeed, some of the militant Muslims urge homosexuals should be put to death.
So do I have this right? It’s OK for Qantas to have a partnership with such a company, yet they want to beat the drum about something Israel Folau has said.
I’ll tell you something Castle didn’t tell the media when she rushed out to meet them after the meeting with Folau.
My understanding is that Folau told Rugby Australia that if they were worried about the sponsorship and the money and they couldn’t accommodate his views, he would be happy to walk. He certainly will not yield to this kind of bullying — my words, not his.
Interestingly, if Israel was a Muslim rather than a devout Christian, I wonder what Qantas would have to say. We should be grateful that it has taken a talented and courageous young athlete to stand up to all this rubbish and affirm his entitlement to freedom of speech.
All sorts of things are said about you and me and we could bawl our eyes out about being hurt or a “victim”. It is time we all took a spoonful of cement and toughened up.
If along the way we might have to pay a price to defend critical freedoms, then so be it. Folau seems quite prepared to pay that price.
Raelene Castle, if you’re not going to be a failure before you’ve even begun, start doing something about the mess that the game is in and forget grandstanding about Israel Folau.
Rugby is drowning in problems. I’ve written in this column about them.
Schoolboys rugby is nothing more than an old boys’ club. Our best schoolboys are going either to other franchises such as the Crusaders or to rugby league.
People in charge of high performance, as with cricket, are unable to secure high performance.
Yet the first big play under Castle’s leadership is to summon Folau to explain comments he’s made. Quite frankly, who cares?
As one rugby international wrote to me: “These Rugby Australia people in power, not to be confused with powerful people, are making a mockery of the past, the present and of course the future”.
Well, what about the future? Rugby supporters are voting with their feet.
Haven’t Rugby Australia lost BMW, Lion Nathan and Buildcorp as sponsors in recent times? What are you doing about that, Raelene?
Does Rugby Australia spend more time checking with its lawyers than it does with checking the wellbeing of the game? And what about this National Rugby Championship? The competition is a nonsense.
Most rugby people have their kids playing at school or with a club. Then there’s Super Rugby, the provincial competition with more than 15 matches a year. Then there are the Wallabies, our national team, with often more than 15 matches a year.
Add to that the men’s sevens and the women’s sevens, international events with more than 15 matches a year.
And someone wants to add a national domestic rugby competition with another 10 games. There is neither room nor money for such a meaningless rugby event. This outfit folded before. It should never have been resurrected.
The European model is instructive. There, you can follow your team at club level via an English Premiership or a French Top 14 team. The same teams kick on to play in the European competitions, like the Champions Cup, which was the Heineken Cup.
But here, why would our best young Australian schoolboy players hang around to perhaps play eight games in a national domestic rugby competition for $5000 a season when the NRL teams are offering fulltime training, contracts of up to $100,000 and even a place in their 36-man roster.
The national rugby competition deal of $5000 for players means Rugby Australia value these players at about $20 an hour. A good tradesman wouldn’t work for that.
In the US, you have school footy on Friday, college footy on Saturday and pro footy on Sunday. Football people can engage and consume the game at every level over three days each weekend. Why wouldn’t Rugby Australia think about these options?
Then again, Cameron Clyne is the guy who said it would take 72 hours to sort out the Super Rugby mess in relation to the Western Force. It turned out to be well beyond 72 days.
Do these people have enough experience to run our game and make the big calls needed for our game to survive, let alone grow?
How could anyone in a decision-making position think there would be enough room for a national domestic rugby competition? It was a dud and it is still a dud and changing the name from ARC to NRC won’t rescue it.
If Castle has a 100-day plan, she needs to communicate it to the rugby public and she needs to get a move on. Getting rid of the NRC would be a good start. Straightening out schoolboy rugby would be a better start.
Rugby people are voting with their feet. In the year 2000, the Wallabies played New Zealand in Sydney in front of 109,000 supporters at ANZ Stadium. In 2017, we were lucky to get 50,000 for the same fixture at the same venue.
The drop in support for the Wallabies is more a vote of no confidence in the current administration than it is in the players.
In club land, where genuine rugby people have roots, the ARU, now Rugby Australia, stink. And nothing is being done to dilute the anger that the clubs have for the national governing body. Neglect the clubs, as administrators have done, and failure will follow.
So what’s the big play of the week with rugby drowning in problems?
Summon Israel Folau to explain comments he’s made about gay people. The worst you could say about Folau is he has an opinion.
Rugby leadership in this country barely has an opinion on anything, let alone one you’d agree with. They go missing. They’re silent. Yet now they’re buying a fight with one of their finest employees.
As I said to Israel Folau this week, I disagree with what he said, but I’d be happy to be appointed as his counsel and I don’t charge a fee.
It’s time someone took on some of these no-hopers who are running the game. Running it into the ground.
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Possibly the most Alan Jones article ever.
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@mikedogz when referencing Alan Jones, please use "coach" or any derivative in quotes as I have done. It makes more sense that way.
Jones makes some good points, if at times tenuous (the Qantas-Emirates thing). As usual, sport blurs the lines into whatever you'd like to make them.
Folau can say what he fucking likes about gay people. And people can say his religious beliefs are laughable. The end.
I did have to laugh at this tho
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It's a bullshit article. It's that classic lie that politicians use: 'you spend ALL your time talking about X, but neglect Y which is FAR more important'.
They had one meeting with Izzy. Hardly taking up all of their time. And there has been huge public outcry about the issue, so I think a meeting was definitely warranted.
And then he just goes into the usual 'get off my lawn' patter, where the solution to everything is to get in a time machine and go back 25 years. Get rid of the NRC, bring back Bob Dwyer and Ealesy and the boys because things were simpler then and you could call winger a fag and an Islander a coconut and everyone would just have a beer and a laugh and go out there and beat the bloody All Blacks without the PC brigade whinging because we're Aussie blokes and that's just what we do.
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@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby in general:
And there has been huge public outcry about the issue, so I think a meeting was definitely warranted.
I wouldn't confuse a few people making noise with numbers of public who actually care to the point it would change their relationship with rugby.
All the ARU had to do is say "we have an inclusive policy, we don't share his stated position, but he's entitled to it."
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@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby in general:
And there has been huge public outcry about the issue, so I think a meeting was definitely warranted.
I wouldn't confuse a few people making noise with numbers of public who actually care to the point it would change their relationship with rugby.
All the ARU had to do is say "we have an inclusive policy, we don't share his stated position, but he's entitled to it."
Yep, this.
I'm with Alan on this - I don't agree with Israel, but FFS he's entitled to be a christian and believe what he likes. Heck, most christian churches are split on this too
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@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I wouldn't confuse a few people making noise with numbers of public who actually care to the point it would change their relationship with rugby.
All the ARU had to do is say "we have an inclusive policy, we don't share his stated position, but he's entitled to it."
He's the biggest player in the game, by a country mile. His comment has affected his standing with sponsors, and with fans of the game.
While I agree that it won't cause people to walk away, I think it's been big enough to warrant a meeting. Not to silence him, or condemn him, but to see if steps can be taken to avoid any further backlash or comments that may be perceived to be divisive.
I'd say that's a pretty standard step that an employer would take when an action by an employee has caused a reaction like this one has.
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@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby in general:
He's the biggest player in the game, by a country mile. His comment has affected his standing with sponsors, and with fans of the game.
Which of his sponsors have publicly distanced themselves from his comments? The ARU may have to field some uncomfortable calls from sponsors but the answer writes itself:
- This has got you media coverage you don't have to pay for.
- He's entitled to his beliefs, just as you're entitled to yours.
- Make an unnecessary issue of it and he's likely to walk, reducing the return on your investment.
Quite frankly a mature organisation that engages in sponsorship would write the same type of response I wrote earlier. And it goes a long way to placating people like me; who actually spend money on the product rather than people who couldn't give a shit about the game and are too poor to fly anything other than Jetstar.
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No sponsors publicly, but I have heard there have been some moves in private.
And I think you underestimate the depth of sentiment on this issue. Whilst nobody is trying to silence him, the comment has alienated him to a fair chunk of the fan base.
The sentiment hasn't been whipped up by RA at all. Their initial response mirrored yours, in fact. But as the issue continued to dominate headlines, I think it's appropriate that they had a private discussion with him.
They have done OK to navigate a pretty tricky issue IMO, with a wide array of opinions on the subject - ranging from yours to some who think he should be thrown out of the game.
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@barbarian said in Aussie Rugby in general:
They have done OK to navigate a pretty tricky issue IMO, with a wide array of opinions on the subject - ranging from yours to some who think he should be thrown out of the game.
That's not a wide array. My opinion is bang in the middle of the extremes that want to tell other people how to think and what to say.
