All Blacks 2024
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@Frank said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
. I liked what Tosi brought, but I think those big NH tests come too soon for him, and his weakness in the scrum could be exposed.
Not against England's shit scrummaging bench props.
Are Ireland's reserve props good at scrummaging?Ever heard of a fella named Cian Healey?
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@voodoo said in All Blacks 2024:
The turnovers need to be taken in context - he attempts a STACK of them every game - at the expense of putting in a dominant tackle or counter-rucking. I think they cost us significantly on a net/net basis. I would so much rather he put in 3-4 hard shoulders into some prick running at us.
Similar story with his ball running. He hangs off cleaning rucks to be in position to hit the ball up. There's a trade off.
And mauls.
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What's being missed a bit amongst the loose forward discussion is that Robertson has pretty explicitly said he basically sees no difference between the roles of a 6 and the roles of an 8 - they're interchangeable except when occasionally attacking off the back of a scrum.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
What's being missed a bit amongst the loose forward discussion is that Robertson has pretty explicitly said he basically sees no difference between the roles of a 6 and the roles of an 8 - they're interchangeable except when occasionally attacking off the back of a scrum.
He said exactly that in the post-match interview following Bledisloe 2. Even offered England as an example of the other teams doing the same thing.
So either my thinking is wrong in that the roles in modern rugby are still quite different, or he is wrong. And as proof I'll offer the example that for some reason they never name Cane as 8 and Ardie as 6...
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
What's being missed a bit amongst the loose forward discussion is that Robertson has pretty explicitly said he basically sees no difference between the roles of a 6 and the roles of an 8 - they're interchangeable except when occasionally attacking off the back of a scrum.
He said exactly that in the post-match interview following Bledisloe 2. Even offered England as an example of the other teams doing the same thing.
So either my thinking is wrong in that the roles in modern rugby are still quite different, or he is wrong. And as proof I'll offer the example that for some reason they never name Cane as 8 and Ardie as 6...
I think 7 is still distinguishable from the other two?
But no reason to change Savea when he's been playing 8 and does well off the back of the scrum. I think it more means that Hoskins Sotutu, for example, isn't missing out due to his lack of versatility.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
What's being missed a bit amongst the loose forward discussion is that Robertson has pretty explicitly said he basically sees no difference between the roles of a 6 and the roles of an 8 - they're interchangeable except when occasionally attacking off the back of a scrum.
I think people do get overly focussed on numbers. You want a jackler, a cleaner, a genuine lineout option, a power runner and a hard shouldered tackler.
On attacking scrums power runner packs at 8. On defensive scrums tackler at blindside. Usually jackler and tackler are separate so jackler at open side on opp scrums. Also wild card of linking/passing loosie, who comes off own scrum off open side or back.
We seem to be short a hard tackling lineout option if Finau excluded. -
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
Hoss gives you lineout, linking and some jackling. Wallace adds power running and some jackling. LJ gives you shoulder and some jackling. That combo only needs a cleaner.
Thought crossed my mind that TWM might have a concern about Paps and breakdown. Paps and Niggles was fine but maybe felt Paps and Wallace might not work so well.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MajorRage said in All Blacks 2024:
Granted, I've only seen the highlights on the weekend
Fuck I love this sort of analysis
Top Ferning 
Means I only missed about 20 mins of in ball play the entire RC …
Feel free to let me know what you disagree with, happy to debate and review where I’m wrong ….
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@MajorRage said in All Blacks 2024:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
@MajorRage said in All Blacks 2024:
Granted, I've only seen the highlights on the weekend
Fuck I love this sort of analysis
Top Ferning Means I only missed about 20 mins of in ball play the entire RC …
Feel free to let me know what you disagree with, happy to debate and review where I’m wrong ….
Nah your points are valid, just the ' I only watched the highlights but...' are common on teh interwebs, normally followed by rubbish. Your points based on the entire series not just that match
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Been having a bit of a think on our poor last quarters - which have been extremely thinly papered over by bringing a fresh McKenzie and Ratima on against tiring Wallabies.
The reasons I see:
The lack of game-time the bench guys have had.
The timing of bringing the bench on.
The bench positional mix.
The lack of calm old heads.
Mariner's point about asking McKenzie to make absolutely all of our play and his fatigue.Firstly it's clear that we're trying to play fast. I like that approach, as it suits the way people are brought up playing the game in NZ, and due to that we are always more likely to produce the cattle appropriate for it. We might sometimes look on in envy at successful teams playing more conservative rugby, but I don't think we can consistently be successful trying to replicate it. If you were to look at our first half performances in the RC, we're looking pretty sharp against fresh defences which is a big positive for the game plan, and a big tick for McKenzie's ability to find gaps.
To deal with McKenzie's fatigue, which could be leading to our losing a bit of direction late in games, there are a few options: DM gets fitter or manages his efforts better; he gets more help from other players; or he gets subbed. I think it's very clear from BB's run at 10 that there is nobody in NZ right now who is ready to slot in for DM and keep the same game plan going - so if you sub him, it means a complete change of game plan. That's no small thing, but it is do-able if it is well planned and you bring all the subs on together who have trained to play that different style - e.g. bring on the big boys and Plummer and play narrow Blues 2024 rugby. The easier option would be for DM to get more support, which I guess is where the BB at fullback 2-playmakers attempts come from - not working because BB is not working. WJ isn't that style of fullback, but is our best fullback - so I can't see DM getting help from 15. At 12 JB doesn't seem to be that guy (yet at least), and ALB a little bit but not really. Roigard may be able to provide the help required as he has a bit more of the playmaker 9 about him, but who knows how he will come back from injury. This is the most difficult problem to solve.
The lack of calm old heads. Well we tried old heads in bringing on TJ and BB from the bench, and it was shit because they're not calm guys. You can't do much about losing the likes of Retallick/Whitelock/Smith, but a Savea (or even Cane if you're playing narrow) might help. Otherwise it's more about temperament and leadership from the other guys on the field than experience on the bench.
Bench positional mix. Specialist wingers, jesus christ. no, no, no. We're playing a fast game and the guys getting fatigued are the forwards and 9 & 10. Particularly egregious when most of our backline play multiple positions. We need to look at the best mix to get to a 6-2 split asap as per South Africa.
Bench timing: sadly again we can learn from the Saffas here. This has been a bit of a mess. Robertson used them pretty randomly, then lost faith with the bench and in subsequent games left fatties on too long or moved experienced guys he trusted there. The ABs must have a shitload of data which shows when guys are slowing down and need to be replaced, and optimising that and bringing players on together to retain combinations does not strike me as very complicated.
Bench game time: I'm becoming a bit of a broken record on this (amongst other things), but guys like Aumua are good footy players, not playing well. If you leave him on the bench playing a few minutes each week and then ask him to throw pressure lineouts, what do you expect? Extra nerves combined with a lack of match practice = fuck ups. Again, learn from the Boks: both of their hookers get good minutes.
Hopefully Robertson has actually been thinking about some of this and isn't just sitting there pleased that the media aren't hassling him on the subject anymore because he swapped his starters onto the bench and we performed better in the last quarter. If we can solve it, it would go a long way to making us harder to beat.
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Cheslin Kolbe dominates Rugby Championship stat while several All Blacks lead the way despite Springboks' triumph
With the dust having settled on this year’s edition, we take a closer look at all the stats leaders from the various facets of the game.
Mostly ABs topping the stats
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2024:
With the dust having settled on this year’s edition, we take a closer look at all the stats leaders from the various facets of the game.
Mostly ABs topping the stats
Not too surprising given South Africa rotated their players significantly.
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Good points and a pragmatic idea to play the Blues style near the end of the game. I've called for this too. It means we dominate possession the last quarter instead of defend.
The team yellows haven't helped in the last quarter but I think that comes down to fatigue leaving too many guys on - not making changes.
Maybe the bench with the bigger guys in the last test is an indication they're open to changing the style for the last quarter?
The Pumas test in Eden Park was our best test this year and in the rain we played a much more direct Blues style game which proves we have the ability to play that style.
It's no coincidence that William's and Darry started in that test. Two guys in the tight forwards that get across the advantage line.
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@brodean fatigue definitely a factor in some of the yellows.
Sititi by himself has made a significant difference to our ball carrying. I'm not so sure about Darry as a runner, but as previous I think changing the prop combinations so we have one of Williams and Tosi on at all times has immediate merit. Swapping Cane out for someone who can make a few effective carries is an obvious one, then next port of call for me would be more minutes for Aumua. That plus getting to a 6-2 split and generally bringing the bench on earlier I think would make a big difference. -
Darry made some good hard metres for the Blues and was surprisingly good at muscling over for the try
6 - 2 bench is a good thing to look at for some teams. Who are you thinking for the utility back?
South Africa have a loose forward who can cover midfield and a halfback who can cover wing.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Darry made some good hard metres for the Blues and was surprisingly good at muscling over for the try
6 - 2 bench is a good thing to look at for some teams. Who are you thinking for the utility back?
South Africa have a loose forward who can cover midfield and a halfback who can cover wing.
I guess I just don't see Darry as adding more than Vaai or Barrett overall at this stage, or Pat on the bench - and think there's other more substantial gains to be made in the pack's ball running elsewhere first.
The utility back obviously depends a lot on the starting lineup e.g. put Rieko on the wing and you could get away without midfield cover and use a 10/15 utility on the bench. Otherwise you probably have to start a fullback or 12 who can cover 10, and put a midfielder ALB/JB on the bench.
Can Plummer play fullback? If he covered 10/12/15 off the bench then a Narawa/Fainganuku on the wing covering centre would work. -
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@gt12 All those games counted.
He got dished a pretty bogus yellow card after 90 seconds, which probably hampered him a bit.
Cane got a red card and made 8 times the amount of tackles as your Tongan boy.
Being shit hampered him a bit.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
I'd be surprised if Tosi would have played if Newell was fit. It could be another example where injury solved a problem.
With benefit of hindsight it seems odd that Tosi didn’t Chuck on a jersey when Newell calf went in warm up to Boks 2.
